Troy Allen Christianson
40 Cal.
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The knife in question is a very fine looking blade. It may have been re-handled in the past century, or it just shows the effects of a well cared for tool.
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Help ID'ing a knife
- Thread starter gizamo
- Start date
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That second blade- looks similar to the ones Ed Fowler makes, dropped point, the edge continuously curving, the ricasso area even with the edge so it doesn't get hung up in ribs and a long ricasso so you can put a finger over the area to some extent. Stag handle- gives a good grip. Looks like pretty thick/strong blade- able to split bone, etc.
crockett said:
Hmm, could be a "Koller".
gizamo said:
Excellent point. What do you guys think of this one?
Well, since you asked... :rotf:
First let's finish off the first knife? That type of micarta is the earliest style and color. Phenolic plastics oxidize, which probably accounts for the differences in color.
Now, this knife. Just MHO, of course. This blade has evidence of hammer marks, indicating a locally made blade. The guard is not home made, but a fairly good casting. Add to that the silver(?) caps, and it does not add up to "typical." Additionally, the brass pins are not typical of the vintage the knife is supposed to be, i.e. Civil War.
Conclusion? This knife needs provenience or a really good story. Could be made from parts (at any time in history), or could be a fake. The inscription looks 100% fake, regardless of the knife's actual history.
Anyone else brave enough to throw his hat in the ring? I'll go toe to toe... :hatsoff:
edit:
OK, the guard could be home made too, looking at the pics again. But it still doesn't add up to "typical."
First let's finish off the first knife? That type of micarta is the earliest style and color. Phenolic plastics oxidize, which probably accounts for the differences in color.
Now, this knife. Just MHO, of course. This blade has evidence of hammer marks, indicating a locally made blade. The guard is not home made, but a fairly good casting. Add to that the silver(?) caps, and it does not add up to "typical." Additionally, the brass pins are not typical of the vintage the knife is supposed to be, i.e. Civil War.
Conclusion? This knife needs provenience or a really good story. Could be made from parts (at any time in history), or could be a fake. The inscription looks 100% fake, regardless of the knife's actual history.
Anyone else brave enough to throw his hat in the ring? I'll go toe to toe... :hatsoff:
edit:
OK, the guard could be home made too, looking at the pics again. But it still doesn't add up to "typical."
Twice boom
50 Cal.
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Hmmmmmm,I love all this brutality. :grin:
I'm not sure that the blade is a home made job. It appears like factory ,but it has been worked over..
The handle appears to be made from some sort of antler. Who ever instaled it did couple things wrong that suggests to me it was not done by a pro. First mistake was placing the brass pin too close to where the bone ends. Secondly,the antler was thined from the top rather than from the bottom. By going that route it exposed the marrow pores .Look in the middle of the handle and towards the top/end.
One other thing. Look at the blade and you will see (not sure) what appears to be a double grind line. The original was much higher on the blade. The second might have been put there at a later date and the reason for the hammer marks,maybe.
No hard feelings I hope. :v
Twice.
I'm not sure that the blade is a home made job. It appears like factory ,but it has been worked over..
The handle appears to be made from some sort of antler. Who ever instaled it did couple things wrong that suggests to me it was not done by a pro. First mistake was placing the brass pin too close to where the bone ends. Secondly,the antler was thined from the top rather than from the bottom. By going that route it exposed the marrow pores .Look in the middle of the handle and towards the top/end.
One other thing. Look at the blade and you will see (not sure) what appears to be a double grind line. The original was much higher on the blade. The second might have been put there at a later date and the reason for the hammer marks,maybe.
No hard feelings I hope. :v
Twice.
Claude :grin:
Of course it is the same Koller that I posted before. It is a pre-WWII piece and one that a gentleman hunter should prefer. Koller was one of the makers absorbed by Hitler and is known for his German Youth knives. The thing that is remarkable are the American makers that are known for their use of leather to stag handles. Scagel is well known for this difficult accomplishment. Of course if the knife were a original Scagel it would be worthy of commanding a very high price...
My point, and I do have one... :wink: It is a very fine piece and if you look at it...able to span many periods of time. And yet is actually a modern one. My best estimation in the mid 1930's....
As to your knife.... :hmm:
giz
Of course it is the same Koller that I posted before. It is a pre-WWII piece and one that a gentleman hunter should prefer. Koller was one of the makers absorbed by Hitler and is known for his German Youth knives. The thing that is remarkable are the American makers that are known for their use of leather to stag handles. Scagel is well known for this difficult accomplishment. Of course if the knife were a original Scagel it would be worthy of commanding a very high price...
My point, and I do have one... :wink: It is a very fine piece and if you look at it...able to span many periods of time. And yet is actually a modern one. My best estimation in the mid 1930's....
As to your knife.... :hmm:
giz
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I'll play. I'm going to say it looks homemade, not very skillfully made, and I lean toward 20th c. Very amatuerish. The plunge on the blade, and the ricasso treatment appear factory made, but the hammer marks look like those of an amatuer smith. Maybe a little home modifying? The guard appears shaped from bar stock to me, poorly I would add, and I've seen many like it on beginners knives. The position of the last pin in the grip makes me think that the pommel bolsters were added after the fact, and I think they look to be iron. The missing pin seems to be a bit strange. Other than what Pichou said, I don't know. You're gunna make us look like idiots aren't cha Claude?
Twice boom said:
No hard feelings, it's not my knife and I didn't make it.
I wondering what the members think about a timeframe for it's manufacture and is it really from the Civil War?
Claude said:
Not a chance in H-E-double hockey sticks.
IMHO, a fair amount of older reenactor gear winds up in the hands of inexperienced antique collectors and dealers. I know of a collector guidebook that is so full of reenactor pieces and forgeries that it belongs next to the Sears catalog in the outhouse.
Hmmmm,
Tough one for me, not being able to examine the knife. Why do I want to say the time period is off...? For some reason I predate it to the War of Northern Agression :v
Could go with the safe guess and just say it is pre' 60's...not mentioning which century. Claude, this turns up to be something you brought back from a 1960's road trip to Tijuana and I'm going to be really embarassed.... :blah:
giz
Tough one for me, not being able to examine the knife. Why do I want to say the time period is off...? For some reason I predate it to the War of Northern Agression :v
Could go with the safe guess and just say it is pre' 60's...not mentioning which century. Claude, this turns up to be something you brought back from a 1960's road trip to Tijuana and I'm going to be really embarassed.... :blah:
giz
:thumbsup: The knife can be found on the following page, with all the other fakes. :wink:Pichou said:
http://www.savage-station.com/page20.html
Last edited by a moderator:
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I find it interesting (but not surprising) that almost all of the pictures on the "fakes" page are taken from ebay.
very nice site, sort of reminds me of the trade axe site that used to be up. i did notice this however. he has one knife listed as coming from atlanta cutlery, but it has a tim ridge of swamp fox knives cartouche on it. heres its description
Another Atlanta Cutlery reproduction being sold as a period item. Oiy Vey!
its right below the cherokee knife with fringed sheath.
Another Atlanta Cutlery reproduction being sold as a period item. Oiy Vey!
its right below the cherokee knife with fringed sheath.
tnguy said:
Even the fake knife site is a fake? You can't trust anyone theses days. :wink:
Never heard of Koller. Thanks. The Link to the Ed Fowler knives is:
http://www.edfowler.com/thebooks.html
To me at least the blades look similar. I wonder if Fowler was influenced by Koller?
http://www.edfowler.com/thebooks.html
To me at least the blades look similar. I wonder if Fowler was influenced by Koller?
Last edited by a moderator:
Troy Allen Christianson
40 Cal.
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Boy am I a gull-a-bull. While I do not collect antique knives or CW memorabilia I would have never guessed that the bowie in photo you posted was fake! After perusing the website of fakes I would be very wary of buying anything without having it checked out first!
Yes, the some fakes can reach really state of the art levels. Some of the more famous cutlers also made farm implements, etc and guys have cut out the stamp marks on these lesser items and welded them into new steel to create fakes. I believe there have also been instances where a plow, etc with a stamp mark of a famous cutler has been cut and ground into a knife- preserving the valuable mark. There have been instances of expert appraisers being duped and folks paying $3,000 plus for a fake blade. I was at one show where a prime Sheffield bowie had a $30,000 ( yup-thousand) price tag. I asked the guy if I could trace the knife on paper and take some photos which I was allowed to do- it's on the back burner as one of those knives I'll get around to making some day.
