Help me make a choice on twist rate

[ThreeCedars]

Hello Everyone,

I am planning on building a 54 caliber rifle with a 28” barrel, and intend on shooting PRB.

The choices I have currently are between a Colerain barrel at 1:56 twist, and a Rice barrel at 1:66 twist.

My question is which one would be better suited for a shorter barrel application?

I imagine I could push the ball harder with the slower twist barrel, but this is just an assumption based on reading other posts. Does the 1:56 twist show any signs of not liking heavier charges? Or is it not an issue?

This may also be a non issue due to the shorter length dictating how much powder can be burned effectively. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Any opinions on which would be more appropriate?

Thanks!

 

[leadhoarder]

I know both 1:48 and 1:66 both work well with a PRB. I would be happy with either of them but the 1:56 may be better if you want to use lighter loads. Just my inexperienced opinion.

 

[64Springer]

I wouldn't consider a 28 inch barrel a short barrel. 18 to 20 is a short barrel. You'll have plenty of powder burning area.

Yes. You can push a ball faster with a slower twist because it's less likely to push past the rifling. A tighter patch would allow more powder/speed in my opinion.

Again, personal opinion, but I think a 1:56 would be a better choice for stabilizing a heavier .54 caliber ball.

 

[ThreeCedars]

Thank you gentlemen!

Anyone have a 28” barrel they just love? What is the twist, and what load are you using?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

1 in 66 works well. I prefer faster. Maybe as fast as 1 in 48.

 

[TreeMan]

If you had two rifles with one of each of those twists I’m pretty confident you wouldn’t be able to tell any difference between the two. One turn in 56 or 66 inches is a minuscule difference in a 28 inch barrel.

 

[ThreeCedars]

Cool - thanks. I felt like I could have been overthinking it, but always good to seek out good advice. Sounds like it will work no matter which way I go.

I am leaning towards the 1:56 twist at this point, just to try something different…

 

[ThreeCedars]

Also something occurred to me - my 1:48 barrel shoots great at 80 grains 3f, and my 1:60 shoots great at 100 grains 3f. I wonder if the 1:56 will shoot well around the 90 grain mark… Now I’m curious!

 

[Vintage Gunsmith]

Treeman is correct. Unless you have extremely well calibrated lab equipment and perfect loads, it is highly doubtful you could discern any appreciable difference between the two twists and their effect on the ball velocity, spin or anything else.

 

[TreeMan]

Also something occurred to me - my 1:48 barrel shoots great at 80 grains 3f, and my 1:60 shoots great at 100 grains 3f. I wonder if the 1:56 will shoot well around the 90 grain mark… Now I’m curious!

Yes. No. Maybe. Probably. All barrels have a preferred load. Even barrels by the same maker with the same twist. What shoots well in one may not shoot well in another. Same with cartridge guns. I have three 54s. All shoot very well with 80grains of 2F. In hunting or target applications I’ve never felt the need for more powder. The law of diminishing returns applies and it’s a waste of powder. Never had anything walk away from being shot with that load. As far as your curiosity goes I’ll peak it and tell you I’ve never had luck/accuracy with 3F in any of my 54s compared to 2F. Might just be my guns and yours will differ.

 

[longcruise]

I shoot three different 54s. A 1:48, a 1:60 and a 1:70. They all shoot great with 50 to 90 of 3f. We make too much of twist rate IMO. It's more important that the bore and crown be of good quality and the patch material is tough.

The Rice barrel will have a better finish inside and out so that would be my choice but it's your money and your gun!

 

[Relic shooter]

Several decades ago I became a collector/shooter of primarily large bore English & European target & hunting rifles & pistols because their barrels produced superior accuracy in competition.
Typically, the barrels in the above rifles & pistols always have deep fast twist rifling. In rifles built for patched round balls the twist is usually close to one turn in length of the barrel & rifling depth runs .010 to .014 deep on a typical 7 groove percussion era firearm & often find deeper rifling depth on flintlock era firearms. Vintage firearms with micro-groove rifling typically feature a much shallower rifling depth.

I personally have found that rifles & pistols with deeper fast twist rifling provides excellent accuracy with light or heavy powder charges when the proper patch & ball combination used .
Poor accuracy in modern factory barrels with very shallow depth rifling when a heavy charge is used is almost always due to use of undersized round balls. Modern factory barrels usually require an almost bore sized round ball dia. & thinner high density pillow ticking patches to obtain a proper seal to obtain uniform pressures & good accuracy.
As most experienced shooters know, shallow fast twist rifling is commonly used very well in the majority of modern & vintage cartridge firearms because they use tight tolerance jacketed or hard-cast lead projectiles.

Just my opinion but I've always felt that factory manufactures of modern muzzleloaders should at least provide buyers with a recommended ball & patch combination.
During the years I maintained a ML storefront the majority of my ML customers were new to muzzleloading so I measured the bores & made PRB loading recommendations to my customers.
Most of the slightly used muzzleloaders I bought were from newbie mail order or Walmart buyers who became disenchanted due to a lack of information, this was way prior to the internet.
Apologies for the lengthy reply, I'm just an over the hill guy who still loves the sport & wants to see it grow.
Relic shooter

 

[beardedhorse]

My Green Mountain .54 caliber barrel has a 1-66 twist and shoot patched round ball well. A 1-48 twist in a White Mountain .54 TC barrel is finicky with patched round ball. My .53 + caliber Bill Large barrel is also 1 in 48 twist. Finally found a decent Lyman .526 round ball mold for it. Many original Hawken 53. - .54 barrels were 1 - 48 twist and seven groove. Just picked up a 36" long Bill Large barrel in .50 caliber but marked 1 in 42 inch twist and labelled Match Grade. Not sure if it is correct or intended for slug shooting. Hope it is 1 in 48 and not 1 - 42. Will have to check it out. Wondering if it will stabilize patched round ball.

 

[necchi]

As already mentioned you won't see much difference between the two.
The variables of ball size, patch thickness and lube properties will be the determining factor of the charge size used to find either of the barrels preferred accurate load.
Those 3 things all work together,
Changing the patch thickness alone, will significantly change the powder charge needed in any barrel.
Chasing a maximum load with barrel choice is a different rabbit hole with PRB than it is with/for conical.
1/56 vrs 1/66 twist in 28"s is a rotational degree of change that needs a lathe to measure.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Slower twists require heavier charges to get your accuracy sweet spot. I would go with the 48.

 

[ThreeCedars]

Excellent insight guys - thank you for the thoughtful responses and info!

And @Relic shooter thanks for the lengthy reply! I am not over the hill yet, but I can see the summit…

 

[Relic shooter]

My Green Mountain .54 caliber barrel has a 1-66 twist and shoot patched round ball well. A 1-48 twist in a White Mountain .54 TC barrel is finicky with patched round ball. My .53 + caliber Bill Large barrel is also 1 in 48 twist. Finally found a decent Lyman .526 round ball mold for it. Many original Hawken 53. - .54 barrels were 1 - 48 twist and seven groove. Just picked up a 36" long Bill Large barrel in .50 caliber but marked 1 in 42 inch twist and labelled Match Grade. Not sure if it is correct or intended for slug shooting. Hope it is 1 in 48 and not 1 - 42. Will have to check it out. Wondering if it will stabilize patched round ball.

Your Bill Large 1in 42 twist .50 cal. barrel should be a PRB tack driver, I always used faster twist barrels in my rifles, twist averaged one turn in length of the barrel.
I used some of Bill's fast twist barrels many years ago when I was building competition rifles & as I recall they had a bit deeper rifling & also handled heavy hunting charges really well as long as size of the RB & patch thickness was correct.
Sounds like you have a long background in shooting ML so I think you will do just fine.
Relic shooter