Help shooting my rock lock

[William O.]

I'm having trouble holding steady on the target when shooting my flintlock offhand. No problems with accuracy from a benchrest but my groups open up to 6 inches at 50 yards when I try shooting offhand. I have an early Virginia transitional .50 rifle made by Matt Avance. I don't have any problems when shooting this way when using my .54 cap lock but the delay I perceive when shooting my flintlock is causing me fits. I'm using 3f Goex as both main charge and prime although I do have some 4f. Any suggestions on how I can get on target with my flinter?

 

[54mountain]

Practice, practice,practice.......

When I first shooting a flinter,I and many of us had the same problem, I shoot a right handed gun left handed and it took a couple of years to calm down and concentrate on my follow through,(Holding on target after the shot) to hit as good as I could with my cap guns. I now do not ever see the flash of the pan.
Keep your eyes on the target and follow through with the shot, If you think about the flash you will flinch every time.

Galen

 

[rfdr]

when you don't do something enuf or alot, you create surprise reactions. the remedy is to force yourself into that surprise reactions over and over and over, as fast as you can.

do a marathon flash-in-the-pan session, at least 50-100 pan firings (nothing down the muzzle!), as fast as you can reprime the pan.

this is a sure fire cure. yes, pun intended. :hatsoff:

 

[William O.]

Okay, practice makes perfect, good advice. Does 4f in the pan makes any difference as opposed to 3f? I use Goex, BTW.

 

[Zonie]

You say you have some 4F powder so try priming with it.

I'm sure you'll find it doesn't make enough difference to notice.

 

[Kapow]

Can I ask/suggest something along the same lines? I have just started dabbling in flints to and can see it dominating my blackpowder future, kind of a natural progression.

I notice with my percussion Lyman that two things outside of good form and follow through have helped my shooting immensly. I'm wondering if they can be also applied to improving flintlock accuracy?


1. Minimal disturbance to rifle during firing process. ie a good quality set of triggers so that when the shot is touched off the sight picture is not disturbed and lagtime is also reduced. Alo a smooth functioning lock and quality cap/flint.

2. Reducing lag time directly through a good quality liner such as white lightening, which I have read is as fast as a percussion cap.

Would appreciate your collective thoughts??

 

[rfdr]

Okay, practice makes perfect, good advice. Does 4f in the pan makes any difference as opposed to 3f? I use Goex, BTW.

you will get differing opinions as to what bp granularity is best for the pan. typically, it don't much matter. use whatever appears to work best for *your* lock. also, use pan powder *sparingly* - there is no need for a huge explosion.

 

[rfdr]

Can I ask/suggest something along the same lines? I have just started dabbling in flints to and can see it dominating my blackpowder future, kind of a natural progression.

I notice with my percussion Lyman that two things outside of good form and follow through have helped my shooting immensly. I'm wondering if they can be also applied to improving flintlock accuracy?


1. Minimal disturbance to rifle during firing process. ie a good quality set of triggers so that when the shot is touched off the sight picture is not disturbed and lagtime is also reduced. Alo a smooth functioning lock and quality cap/flint.

2. Reducing lag time directly through a good quality liner such as white lightening, which I have read is as fast as a percussion cap.

Would appreciate your collective thoughts??

imho, rifles are rifles - all the precepts of good form, aiming, breathing, balance, trigger control and follow thru apply. ml's are no different in those respects from cartridge rounds.

imho, with most all ml's (particularly rock locks) the difference can, and usually is, in lag time - lots depends on your rifle's mechanics, lock quality and how well it's timed, how the barrel charge is set and the touch hole cleared, how the pan is charged, etc. most of of these lock guns are unique in some ways, and they need to be addressed as the unique little beasts they are.

i've seen some flintlocks with incredibly fast fire time, with difficult to perceive lag, pretty much like any center or rim fire cartridge - we're talkin' just one collective "whoosh-bang".

dealing with a flintlock's fireworks is something to learn and overcome, to avoid the flinching. practice "flashing the pan" 'til it's no longer a flinching issue. use as little pan powder as possible that will get the job done (that is, throw good sparks into the touch hole). make sure your flint's edge is properly set and will strike the frizzen well enuf to provide goodly sparks. DO WEAR SHOOTING GLASSES!

"improving ml accuracy" - run, don't walk, and subscribe to dutch's "black powder rifle accuracy" - imho, it is THE bible for all black powder aficionados. his methods are spot on and you WILL improve your ml accuracy.

 

[Trench]

A steady hold in which your bones support the rifle and not your muscles goes a long way to shrinking groups, like in these photos. Rest the rifle in your palm and let your elbow sit on your ribs.

Also, "follow-through" helps. Don't drop your hold until 1 second after you fire your shot.

 

[don hepler]

I flinch bad. I am thinking about just priming the pan and practice, without anything in the barrel. You might want to give that a try.

The next range session, I am planning to try it.

 

[hanshi]

First off using 4F does reduce lock time over using 3F. Not a great deal of difference but noticeable with a side by side comparison. The main thing, however, is follow through. When you fire maintain your sight picture for a moment before moving the gun.

Some people are initially distracted by the pan flash; luckily I wasn't bothered at all from the outset. Practice with pan flash & follow through to get through the problem.

 

[Zonie]

A Flintlock using a White Lightning liner will not fire as fast as a Percussion rifle.

Think about it.
When the flint strikes the frizzen, the caplock is striking the cap.

When the Flintlock's first sparks are flying towards the prime in the pan, the caplock's cap is sending the flame into the main powder charge.

A well set up Flintlock can be very fast but it cannot be as fast as an equally well set up Percussion gun.

 

[William O.]

I think that this has an RMC/White Lighting vent liner already, but I just noticed that the flint has chipped out in the middle, although it's still sparking well I am going to put a new one in. Also, the caplock I am comparing my flintlock to is a semi-custom built around a Lyman Trade Rifle barrel. While it has an L&R lock it retains the same single trigger and has a pretty quick ignition time. My Virginia rifle has the double trigger set-up and a light, crisp front trigger that trips around 4 pounds I think. As I said, benchrest shooting presents no problems, it's just when shooting offhand that I'm having problems with. Looking at the advice about my shooting stance, I'm going adjust things so my weight is less on my legs and more on my arms being supported. I also just noticed that the flint has chipped in the middle, although it's still sparking well I am going to put a fresh one in.

PS-I've got Dutch's shooting tips although I've not had a chance to mix up some dry lube solution.
Should I lighten the trigger pull or maybe add some to it?

 

[matt denison]

" No problems with accuracy from a benchrest but my groups open up to 6 inches at 50 yards when I try shooting offhand"

So, it's not the gun, my friend, it is you.

My suggestion is to practice follow through. I could help you one-on-one but is hard on a keyboard. Follow through is a Zen kind of thing where you feel that you aren't through with the shot until a second or two after the gun goes bang.

Best way to practice follow through is with dry firing. Or better yet many hours and many shots down range at a shoting range concentrating on what needs to be done to keep the sights on the target. Don't expect to go out your first time and be "right on" with a flintlock. It takes time and practice. If you really want to do this then you can, don't quit, keep going out there and shooting.

 

[Mr.D123]

I have to agree with the above advice on following through. It has helped me tremendously.

 

[William O.]

Oh, no doubt that it is me. From a benchrest I can keep it inside a three inch circle, and maybe that is what I just need to start out doing while finding the optimum powder charge. After that I can adjust or file the sights, then start my off-hand improvement. Maybe someday I will have enough confidence and an opportunity to gon on a HC hunting trip with the rifle,one of the goals that I have.

 

[Kapow]

very helpful info, thanks for sharing. :v

 

[FishDFly]

How long have you been shooting a flint lock?
They do take a bit of time to master.

You have to dry fire each day and do so with a wooden flint. If you do not dry fire, you are wasting your time.

Forget practicing with a flint and priming powder, you will soon quit practicing since you have to clean the gun after each session.

Minimally, if you have set triggers, dry fire that way, it will improve your shooting.

Dry fire first thing in the morning, not at the end of the day when you are tired.

Is your upper body strength enough to support your rifle sufficiently? I have some rifles to heavy and some to light for off hand shooting.

Shooting rifles offhand is like lifting weights, you have to train, bottom line.

Some how this did not end up in the correct place, sorry it was in response to, "Help shooting my rock lock" another post, and I have not been able to move or remove it.

rde

 

[Bob J]

I agree with your suggestion to dry-fire using a piece of wood for the flint. It has helped me "maintain" when those too-long-between-range sessions happen!

 

[nkbj]

Just a thought. Too light a piece dances in your hands like a kitten watching a lizard. Barrel weight isn't necessarily needed but barrel inertia can be a good thing for offhand.