I posted the original thread on help with shooting my flintlock so I appreciate the advice. I don't know why it ended up as a seperate thread but sometimes these forums do strange things.
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Help shooting my rock lock
- Thread starter William O.
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Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Not sure exactly what is meant here. I was taught that shooting "standing/unsupported", your off-hand elbow went against your ribs, with your off-hand supporting the piece in front of the action (or in our case in front of the lock), while your shooting hand held the butt of the piece at your shoulder, and that hand's trigger finger fired the piece. It was more balance and back muscles combined with the off-hand bicep keeping the off-hand bent..., not really an upper body strength situation. I was taught that if I was trying to support the piece without bracing the elbow of the off-hand against the ribs, and using the strength in my (left) arm and shoulder..., that I was wrong.
:idunno:
LD
Loyalist Dave said:
Your description of one of the off hand positions is correct, but no matter which style you use,Loyalist Dave is right, good upper body conditioning will improve your ability to hold the gun steady. Good abs, back, shoulder and arm muscles all contribute. So does well conditioned legs. Watch a soldier stand perfectly still on guard duty for hours. That takes tremendous full body conditioning to be able to do that.
The better shape you are in the better you will shoot, all other things being equal.
While you are dryfiring work on several important techniques; Target aquisition. Find out what sight picture is best for you and your rifle and work at consistently using it. Breath control. When I was taught to shoot I was taught to take a deep breath and exhale 1/2 of it. These days it seems that the US Army teaches thier soldiers to exhale the whole breath. Figure out what you are comfortable with and try to consistently employ it. Trigger Control. Holding the sight picture, control breathing and then put you finger on the trigger and SQUEEZE, not yank or pull, the trigger until the rifle unexpectedly discharges. Follow Through, Hold the sights on the target briefly, after the gun goes off. This will help prevent flinching and jerking.
I realize that this may sound burdensome but with a little perseverance these techniques will become second nature and improve your shooting.
Have fun! BobE
I realize that this may sound burdensome but with a little perseverance these techniques will become second nature and improve your shooting.
Have fun! BobE
rfdr
.54 or bust
dry fire firearm training is as good for one hole muzzle guns as is with any other rifle/pistol/shotgun. it's about form and trigger control and strength.
wood flint is the way to go for daily training, BUT every so often it's still best to flash the pan, because that's what happens at the range and in the field.
imho, strictly using flint and pan powder would be totally mandatory if flinching was even suspected as happening.
ymmv.
wood flint is the way to go for daily training, BUT every so often it's still best to flash the pan, because that's what happens at the range and in the field.
imho, strictly using flint and pan powder would be totally mandatory if flinching was even suspected as happening.
ymmv.
rfdr
.54 or bust
Richard Eames said:
ime, it's not a big issue if you plug the touch hole.
matt denison
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Not sure exactly what is meant here. I was taught that shooting "standing/unsupported", your off-hand elbow went against your ribs..
That never worked for me. Doesn't work for a lot of people. Not big enough ribs or long enough arms or something. I hold my rifle with my index finger at the entry pipe, pulling the gun back into my soulder. My right hand's main duty is to control the trigger. This does require upper body strength but is very steady for me.
That never worked for me. Doesn't work for a lot of people. Not big enough ribs or long enough arms or something. I hold my rifle with my index finger at the entry pipe, pulling the gun back into my soulder. My right hand's main duty is to control the trigger. This does require upper body strength but is very steady for me.
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My old muzzleloading club didn't allow the supporting arm to touch anything but the gun in offhand matches. I learned to shoot offhand without locking in my elbow.
For me, you still have to clean the pan and hammer cock when dry firing with powder in the pan to get rid of the residue.
I am lazy and will admit it, I prefer dry firing versus cleaning residue from stuff.
I dry fire using the set triggers 50% of the time and finish the other 50% by cocking the hammer cock with a wooden flint. I do this because one rifle has a very loud sound when the cock falls on the frizzen and it's a distraction, I need to get use to the distraction.
I am primarily a pistol shooter, some pistols have set triggers and some do not, thus you have to adjust how you practice.
Line shooting is 80% to 90% mental and dry firing will get you there.
I am lazy and will admit it, I prefer dry firing versus cleaning residue from stuff.
I dry fire using the set triggers 50% of the time and finish the other 50% by cocking the hammer cock with a wooden flint. I do this because one rifle has a very loud sound when the cock falls on the frizzen and it's a distraction, I need to get use to the distraction.
I am primarily a pistol shooter, some pistols have set triggers and some do not, thus you have to adjust how you practice.
Line shooting is 80% to 90% mental and dry firing will get you there.
Flash Pan Dan
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I agree with Loyalist Dave, when I was competing in High Power shooting I had the great fortune to be coached by two men, one was a 2 time National Champion and the other was a 6 time California state champion. Besides watching every video and reading every book I could find on proper shooting technique. What I found out is that there is a right way and a wrong way of doing it. There is, however, adaptation due to physical variations. But none the less, the farther you go away from bone and larger muscle support of the firearm in any position the harder it gets to shoot well consistently.
I have met some fantastically gifted shooters that can shoot well from any position. But when it comes to shooting well when it really counts the properly practiced correct form of shooting will always make the shot.
P.S. okawbow, if any club asked me to shoot my weapon in other way than using the proper technique, I would just walk away.
I have met some fantastically gifted shooters that can shoot well from any position. But when it comes to shooting well when it really counts the properly practiced correct form of shooting will always make the shot.
P.S. okawbow, if any club asked me to shoot my weapon in other way than using the proper technique, I would just walk away.
Col. Batguano
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Another trick than can help with the flintlock flinch, is slightly exhaling as you are breaking your shot. That makes it easier to not jerk as the cock is falling, and to keep your eyes open during the commotion of the firing ignition sequence.
So here's how it goes;
set your feet, mount the gun (cocked and ready), find your natural point of aim (after moving your feet a few times) and get your sight picture set. Now take your final breath, and as you are closing in on the point where you are going to break the shot, start a very slight and slow exhale, breaking the shoot at just the right place.
Try it one time. Your offhand groups will contain far fewer typical 4:00 flintlock flinch shots.
the guys that shoot 1000 rounds a week don't need to do this, but for us guys that shoot only a few times a month, it helps.
So here's how it goes;
set your feet, mount the gun (cocked and ready), find your natural point of aim (after moving your feet a few times) and get your sight picture set. Now take your final breath, and as you are closing in on the point where you are going to break the shot, start a very slight and slow exhale, breaking the shoot at just the right place.
Try it one time. Your offhand groups will contain far fewer typical 4:00 flintlock flinch shots.
the guys that shoot 1000 rounds a week don't need to do this, but for us guys that shoot only a few times a month, it helps.
I think one of the things that helped me learn not to flinch when shooting a flintlock was to think my thought as I was beginning to aim.
My thought?
"Boy! I sure better follow thru and hold on target with this shot!
If I flinch and the rifle has a flash in the pan and it doesn't fire I'm sure going to look stupid to all those folks who are watching me."
Believe it or not, that really helped me eliminate my flintlock flinch.
Of course, getting rid of the flintlock flinch also helped my shooting when I am shooting caplocks and those modern things with the little brass cartridges.
My thought?
"Boy! I sure better follow thru and hold on target with this shot!
If I flinch and the rifle has a flash in the pan and it doesn't fire I'm sure going to look stupid to all those folks who are watching me."
Believe it or not, that really helped me eliminate my flintlock flinch.
Of course, getting rid of the flintlock flinch also helped my shooting when I am shooting caplocks and those modern things with the little brass cartridges.
Every post on this thread has some golden nuggets of information in them. I agree that a marksman should develop an accurate load and a sight picture from a bench before trying them offhand. I personally prefer the bone rest method for supporting the rifle but I know many shooters who extend thier support arms toward the muzzle. Many of these folks are excellent shooters. I guess that they are doing what they are comfortable with.
I cant shoot every day but I can dry fire as often as I want and it greatly improves my offhand shooting. Getting to the range and live firing is where you learn if all the theory works for you. Cheers! Bob E
I cant shoot every day but I can dry fire as often as I want and it greatly improves my offhand shooting. Getting to the range and live firing is where you learn if all the theory works for you. Cheers! Bob E
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Just for grins, put an old flint in the jaws and when it doesn't go boom every time, get to see how much you are jerking around. By the time I get through laughing at myself I'm generally pretty steady.
Whatever is happening during your off hand shooting {the most difficult position} is both mental and possibly physical. First off you have to be able to control the rifle's movement. Perhaps the rifle is too heavy, has poor balance {excessively muzzle heavy} or just doesn't fit. Evidently the trigger pull is OK judging from the results off the bench.
Shooting flintlocks can cause a lack of focus...a lot goes on after the trigger is pulled. Have dealt w/ a few "flinchers" {mostly relatives and some others} and what seems to work is this..."as you're aiming, tell yourself that the MOST important thing in your life right NOW, is to keep the bead on the target. Focus on the target and think of nothing else".
Many times an observer can "spot" problems that the shooter is unaware of....happened many times watching hunters shoot at the club's "deer hunting sight-ins"
Practice is good, but won't necessarily solve your problem if the causes aren't found and corrected.....Fred
Shooting flintlocks can cause a lack of focus...a lot goes on after the trigger is pulled. Have dealt w/ a few "flinchers" {mostly relatives and some others} and what seems to work is this..."as you're aiming, tell yourself that the MOST important thing in your life right NOW, is to keep the bead on the target. Focus on the target and think of nothing else".
Many times an observer can "spot" problems that the shooter is unaware of....happened many times watching hunters shoot at the club's "deer hunting sight-ins"
Practice is good, but won't necessarily solve your problem if the causes aren't found and corrected.....Fred
simeon england
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Howdy!
Bull, lets first figure out what is happening, and answer the question of WHY your groups get larger shooting off hand.
IMHO, you are either flinching, or are not holding the gun steady. Both of which are almost entirely eliminated on a bench rest.
Heres some things you can try. "Process of elimination".
Have someone (you trust) load the gun for you. Tell them you want to shoot five rounds and will not watch them load it, and they are to hand it to you loaded but un primed. Note; you should walk away or hide somewhere as to not know or see what they are doing.
Shoot the five rounds with your pard watching.
The point of this is, the pard does not actually load anything 2 of the 5 rounds. You not being aware of which ones, should have your normal shooting practice. Your pard can watch you for flinching, plus you will notice perhaps if you are as well.
You might also start shooting much smaller loads. Start with 35 grains. Dont worry about shot placement, just grouping. Shoot at a closer distance. You might find you flinch less with a lighter load, or dont flinch at all.
So IF you are flinching, you know what to work on.
One other tip. Some find comfort in (for a right handed shooter) pulling with your left hand towards your shoulder, while you push with your right hand. This will steady your muscles a bit, and might tighten up that grouping.
Hope this helps
Bull, lets first figure out what is happening, and answer the question of WHY your groups get larger shooting off hand.
IMHO, you are either flinching, or are not holding the gun steady. Both of which are almost entirely eliminated on a bench rest.
Heres some things you can try. "Process of elimination".
Have someone (you trust) load the gun for you. Tell them you want to shoot five rounds and will not watch them load it, and they are to hand it to you loaded but un primed. Note; you should walk away or hide somewhere as to not know or see what they are doing.
Shoot the five rounds with your pard watching.
The point of this is, the pard does not actually load anything 2 of the 5 rounds. You not being aware of which ones, should have your normal shooting practice. Your pard can watch you for flinching, plus you will notice perhaps if you are as well.
You might also start shooting much smaller loads. Start with 35 grains. Dont worry about shot placement, just grouping. Shoot at a closer distance. You might find you flinch less with a lighter load, or dont flinch at all.
So IF you are flinching, you know what to work on.
One other tip. Some find comfort in (for a right handed shooter) pulling with your left hand towards your shoulder, while you push with your right hand. This will steady your muscles a bit, and might tighten up that grouping.
Hope this helps
StewartLeach
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Align your mind with the Shooter's Mantra:
Alignment- align the sights
Focus- focus on the front sight
Aim- aim using your choice of sight picture
Smooth- smoothly release the shot
Follow- follow through
Dry firing does wonders for offhand shooting by building kinesthetic memories of what a shot feels like. Clamp a flint sized chip of wood in the jaws, and dry fire at a definite target for ten minutes a day. I use a 3/8" dot at 20 feet. Consciously follow through for a count of three.
White Fox
Alignment- align the sights
Focus- focus on the front sight
Aim- aim using your choice of sight picture
Smooth- smoothly release the shot
Follow- follow through
Dry firing does wonders for offhand shooting by building kinesthetic memories of what a shot feels like. Clamp a flint sized chip of wood in the jaws, and dry fire at a definite target for ten minutes a day. I use a 3/8" dot at 20 feet. Consciously follow through for a count of three.
White Fox
