We didn't either except that we thought it didn't belong among us. It was a forerunner of the inlines and others to take advantage of traditional muzzle loaders.
Last edited:
Help with my balls.
- Thread starter Mark E. Prickett
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Alex Hamilton of 10-Ring Precision used to make those pistols in the seventies. They had a 1911-style grip. The percussion version was an inline, but the flinter had an external lock as shown. The percussion pistol, I believe , was called “the Rival.” I don’t know if that same name was applied to the flintlock. I didn’t think they had a set trigger, but I would think the trigger might be adjustable. I also didn’t know any of them had false muzzles. I recall that Bill Large made some of the barrels.
These were serious competition target pistols.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
These were serious competition target pistols.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
Last edited:
Mark E. Prickett
40 Cal
Mark E. Prickett
40 Cal
Mark E. Prickett
40 Cal
NMLRA has a Open Class where anything goes. This is where this gun is going.
Mark E. Prickett
40 Cal
Mark E. Prickett
40 Cal
Sorry, bad math. Twist rate is 1 in 32 .
my thought when i hear comments like he wouldn't sit and drink with you or he didn't fit in is did you even attempt be friendly? before you started deriding his equipment? I also don't care to play dress up, it adds nothing to the fun you want the match to shoot from the bag i'm all for it, but we need to quit being unfriendly if we are going to save our sport whats more important preserving the guns and shooting? or dress up? me i'll chose shooting every time!
Yes we tried not to hurt the sensitive lads feelings even though that was nearly 50 years ago when "hurtfull" comments had not yet been banned. If you'll re-read my post you'll see that I said "it" didn't fit in, not "he" didn't fit in.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2018
- Messages
- 4,497
- Reaction score
- 5,649
There's always the needlessly uppity people at every event
I have a pretty good collection of old Muzzle Blasts magazines, but most of them are in storage an inaccessible. However, I did pull out the 1973 issues a while back and looked through them this evening. In the January, 1973 issue, I found this full-page ad:
Sorry about the lousy image. I had to take a photo with my iPhone. I don't know how to work the scanner on my computer.
Anyway, I don't know if the OP's pistol is one of these or a copycat, but it sure does look like it. It should be serial-numbered somewhere. The flintlock was called "the Dueller, and the inline percussion model was known as "the Rival." The description indicates these were fitted with Large (i.e. Bill Large, the barrelmaker) barrels in .45 caliber, with a twist of one in twenty. I am pretty sure these were intended for patched round balls. A set trigger is not mentioned, but we note the "Trigger is adjustable for length and weight of pull and engagement." I believe there was a review of these pistols written in Muzzle Blasts at one time, and if I remember correctly, the flint locks were by Bob Roller. Not certain of that, but I think so. The grip frame was made to duplicate the 1911 pistol, which would make it very familiar-feeling to many bullseye shooters, and regular 1911 grip panels would interchange.
From the ad, it appears these were only available in .45 caliber, and I don't see false muzzles offered as an option. I'm wondering if the OP's pistol might have started as one of these, and had the barrel replaced. Just speculation on my part.
In any event, these pistols were highly regarded by target shooters in their day. They are admittedly not traditional, but hard-core bullseye shooters are a breed apart, and these were designed for maximum accuracy and shootability while still staying within compliance.
I can see why @The Crisco Kid and his pards called it a "space gun." To me, there is something post-apocalyptic about it, with a flint lock on a 1911 frame. In any event, "the Rival" and "the Dueller" have come and gone, while our-old fashioned traditional guns are still being built and appreciated.
As a post-script, back in 2006 I corresponded with a fellow named Chris Hagemann, who worked at Cylinder & Slide. Alex Hamilton, of 10-Ring Precision, had mentioned Mr. Hagemann in his column in American Handgunner. Chris was building what was essentially an updated "Rival" pistol, which he called "the Elkhorn." He apparently only made the percussion model. This is an excerpt from the email he sent me: "...thanks for asking about my pistol... calibers are 32.36.40 though I have built a couple of 45's most shooters are interested in the smaller calibers. Price is $485.00 plus freight. I use Ed Rayle barrels that are round groove 1-16 twist and they are capable of excellent accuracy. As you can see from the picture my frame has the same angle as the Gov't 45, the rear sight is a Bo-Mar BMML with a .110 wide rear notch. Sight Radius is approx 11.250"." He did send a picture, but it would probably get this post deleted! As noted, that was from 2006. I don't know if Chris is still building these or not.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
Sorry about the lousy image. I had to take a photo with my iPhone. I don't know how to work the scanner on my computer.
Anyway, I don't know if the OP's pistol is one of these or a copycat, but it sure does look like it. It should be serial-numbered somewhere. The flintlock was called "the Dueller, and the inline percussion model was known as "the Rival." The description indicates these were fitted with Large (i.e. Bill Large, the barrelmaker) barrels in .45 caliber, with a twist of one in twenty. I am pretty sure these were intended for patched round balls. A set trigger is not mentioned, but we note the "Trigger is adjustable for length and weight of pull and engagement." I believe there was a review of these pistols written in Muzzle Blasts at one time, and if I remember correctly, the flint locks were by Bob Roller. Not certain of that, but I think so. The grip frame was made to duplicate the 1911 pistol, which would make it very familiar-feeling to many bullseye shooters, and regular 1911 grip panels would interchange.
From the ad, it appears these were only available in .45 caliber, and I don't see false muzzles offered as an option. I'm wondering if the OP's pistol might have started as one of these, and had the barrel replaced. Just speculation on my part.
In any event, these pistols were highly regarded by target shooters in their day. They are admittedly not traditional, but hard-core bullseye shooters are a breed apart, and these were designed for maximum accuracy and shootability while still staying within compliance.
I can see why @The Crisco Kid and his pards called it a "space gun." To me, there is something post-apocalyptic about it, with a flint lock on a 1911 frame. In any event, "the Rival" and "the Dueller" have come and gone, while our-old fashioned traditional guns are still being built and appreciated.
As a post-script, back in 2006 I corresponded with a fellow named Chris Hagemann, who worked at Cylinder & Slide. Alex Hamilton, of 10-Ring Precision, had mentioned Mr. Hagemann in his column in American Handgunner. Chris was building what was essentially an updated "Rival" pistol, which he called "the Elkhorn." He apparently only made the percussion model. This is an excerpt from the email he sent me: "...thanks for asking about my pistol... calibers are 32.36.40 though I have built a couple of 45's most shooters are interested in the smaller calibers. Price is $485.00 plus freight. I use Ed Rayle barrels that are round groove 1-16 twist and they are capable of excellent accuracy. As you can see from the picture my frame has the same angle as the Gov't 45, the rear sight is a Bo-Mar BMML with a .110 wide rear notch. Sight Radius is approx 11.250"." He did send a picture, but it would probably get this post deleted! As noted, that was from 2006. I don't know if Chris is still building these or not.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
Last edited:
Mark E. Prickett
40 Cal
Thanks for the post. Can you pm me that photo? Also the second gun I have is indeed the dueller. I have the box,pamphlets and receipt from the 1970's
That's cool, you have an original Dueller with all of the paperwork!
Yes, I will PM the photo of the Elkhorn pistol. Please check your inbox in a few minutes.
Notchy Bob
The other pistol is a Yazel.
Try .350 ball, .015 patch and 20 grains, that is what shoots best in mine. It is a roundball gun. Yazel pistols are the preferred line pistols in Friendship. Yazel pistols are made both in percussion and flintlock as were the Ten Rings. Yazels were made, .32, .36, .40 and .45. A guy in Indiana bought the rights to manufacturer Yazel pistols. Alex is no longer making 10 Rings.
I have a pair of Yazel's , a pair of Ten Rings and a Hagemann flintlock, Hagermann flintlocks have the lock on the left side and it's reversed.
Hard to tell the color in the picture, but if it's a silver color, it is one of the earlier ones made.
Last edited:
Last edited:
dehart.stephen
36 Cl.
Some old Gun Digest from the early to mid 1970's will list that gun and its price at the time.
dehart.stephen
36 Cl.
An old Gun Digest from the early to mid 1970's will list that gun with its price at that time, and then googling the name may lead to more background info.
dehart.stephen
36 Cl.
soory i double- tapped. phone is dodgy tonight . feel free.to delete either.
Similar threads
