Help with old percussion rifle!

[MedicMike3762]

Hello everybody, very new and just getting into black powder. This is my first BP rifle that I don’t know much about. From what I’ve been able to tell it seems to be very old. I don’t know anything else, where it was made or who made it? It is unsigned no name on the barrel flats on the top or bottom. The stock as gorgeous with lots of figure as you can see however it does have some cracks. Bore seems to be in good condition with

good rifling and some light pitting throughout. One question is does this look to be a converted flintlock or was it made as a percussion rifle? Also would something like this be safe to shoot? And finally if anyone has any comments as to the origin of this rifle by styles or characteristics you see I would be grateful! I don’t have much in this rifle I traded an old beat up keltec to my uncle who got it at an auction for 40 bucks. As soon as I saw it I had to have it the wood is beautiful and the craftsmanship is very nice the inlet patch box still works and has a latch release on the bottom of the stock it is a button. Also when something like this have any value at all or is it only a wall hanger?

thank you in advance!

 

[UndeadPoet]

Handsome firearm!

 

[Mad Professor]

That's a beauty! From what you said you near stole it.

And welcome!

Take some calipers to the bore to get an idea of caliber.

Can't see detail but looks like it needs a new front sight. Post some pictures of that TOTW might have something that would fit.

How does barrel come out? I don't see any wedges.

If you have a good MLer gunsmith nearby I'd suggest having it checked. If all is good get some new nipples, powder, patches and balls. Also a kit to load and clean properly. Plenty of info on that here.

Not sure where you are some members may be nearby that can help.

 

[hawkeye2]

A very nice rifle and yes it has value. There is no chance it could have been a flintlock, its post flint era. Judging from the photos I would say there is a definite possibility it is safe to shoot but it should be checked by a competent smith first. I would also ask him for advise about repairing the cracks to stabilize the stock or possibly have him do it if you don't feel confident.

 

[MedicMike3762]

Thank you for all of the replies! To answer some follow up questions, barrel comes out with pins no wedges. I threw some calipers in the end of the bore and it is .44 plus or minus depending on how the caliper is in the bore. Front sight post is present but just about filed down to the nub. I have done tons of wood repair in the past and the stock is the next order of business. Thinking of using accuglass and very small dowel to stabilize the small cracks. Also the barrel seems to be coned? I may just wind up slugging the bore and be sure of what it is. Also on a side note I believe the lock to say warranted which was something common according to my reading in the 1850s/50? And I’m in the greater St. Louis MO area. Thank you all again!

 

[Grenadier1758]

@MedicMike3762
You might want to bring your rifle to one of the Gemmer Gun Club matches. We are located in the St. Louis Area. Members are familiar with antique rifles as well as modern traditional rifles.

The rifle is interesting from the pictures and looks to be a good example of a 1860's rifle.

I only see holes in the lock plate for a main spring, so I don't think this is a conversion from flint lock. It also has an odd number of grooves which is common on older rifled guns as the rifling cutter bears on a land to cut the groove on the opposite side.

 

[Roundball 54]

From the pictures it looks to be a nice piece of history. I would not shoot it . l would preserve it as is and keep it as an artifact of the good old days. But hey thats just me .

 

[user 48679]

Welcome to the board !

There were myriad small, one-man shops that made their own muzzleloaders for customers, often buying the more complicated lockworks ( yep, "warranted").

They sometimes never bothered to mark their work, but every once in a while, they might mark the inside of the lockplate. (also, look closely for a mark on the barrel bottom flat, where it's normally hidden by the stock)

The bore looks like one shown in Ned H. Roberts book The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle (below)

That puppy look like it'll be good to ride the river with - get it checked out & enjoy, either as a user or a wall hanger.

.

 

[54ball]

What I can tell you for sure.....
First is it's exceptional. It is a great example of a entry level collectable Kentucky. That rifle is easily a $900-$2000 rifle as is, in the educated market.
It is an original Kentucky.
What period? It's late 1850-1930.
Style...ambiguous Late Lancaster. It's not a Lemam or Conestoga but it seems to be a contemporary.
Some things look very late (20th Century) like the patchbox and and ramrod striping....Then again rr striping was popular in the latter percussion period. Of course it could have been enhanced in the last 100 years.
The treasure is the barrel. There is no doubt that that is a period barrel with early rifling.
The bore size is more general purpose, meaning it's a sure enough rifle for deer size game, It's not a squirrel gun.
It's possibly shootable.
I would be real careful with repairs especially if they require....refinish.
It's best to take this rifle to a KRA or CLA show to get a more educated opinion.
As said above 1860 is a very very good guess.
It's very possible it a "restock" or older barrel with newer wood. If so, it's period, that's why on the extreme end, 1930ish is possible.
With that said I'm pretty confident it's 19th Century.

 

[MedicMike3762]

@MedicMike3762
You might want to bring your rifle to one of the Gemmer Gun Club matches. We are located in the St. Louis Area. Members are familiar with antique rifles as well as modern traditional rifles.

The rifle is interesting from the pictures and looks to be a good example of a 1860's rifle.

I only see holes in the lock plate for a main spring, so I don't think this is a conversion from flint lock. It also has an odd number of grooves which is common on older rifled guns as the rifling cutter bears on a land to cut the groove on the opposite side.
[/QUOTE

What I can tell you for sure.....
First is it's exceptional. It is a great example of a entry level collectable Kentucky. That rifle is easily a $900-$2000 rifle as is, in the educated market.
It is an original Kentucky.
What period? It's late 1850-1930.
Style...ambiguous Late Lancaster. It's not a Lemam or Conestoga but it seems to be a contemporary.
Some things look very late (20th Century) like the patchbox and and ramrod striping....Then again rr striping was popular in the latter percussion period. Of course it could have been enhanced in the last 100 years.
The treasure is the barrel. There is no doubt that that is a period barrel with early rifling.
The bore size is more general purpose, meaning it's a sure enough rifle for deer size game, It's not a squirrel gun.
It's possibly shootable.
I would be real careful with repairs especially if they require....refinish.
It's best to take this rifle to a KRA or CLA show to get a more educated opinion.
As said above 1860 is a very very good guess.
It's very possible it a "restock" or older barrel with newer wood. If so, it's period, that's why on the extreme end, 1930ish is possible.
With that said I'm pretty confident it's 19th Century.

Wow! Everyone thank you so much for all the info! I am floored that it could be that old! I am learning a ton and have been bitten by the bug hard! Since I have acquired this gorgeous rifle I wanted something that I could actually shoot so I found a very nice looks to be unfired Bill Large barreled flint in .40! I have been gathering all my bits and pieces and look forward to learning much more about this new avenue in my shooting hobby. I think I will more than likely not try to shoot this and hang her on the wall in the ol man cave!