Help with Tulle shooting low

[pharmvet]

I have had my TVM Tulle for about a month now and have really had fun shooting both shot and ball. I still flinch a bit the first shot or two each session. I am shooting 60 grains 2F powder. With a ball I consistently shoot about a foot low at 30 yards. I think some of this is the flinch but not all. Will increasing the powder to 70,80 or 90 grains help raise my shot. It seems that I really have to get my head up off the stock so that the barrel is raised in sighting. I also considered filing my front sitht some. Is this shooting low typical for fowlers or Tulle's in general. Any suggestions are most appreciated.

 

[musketman]

Yes, raising the charge will raise your point of impact somewhat, make note of the way you shoulder the musket and try to be consistent shot after shot...

I always save sight filing as a last resort, it's easier to remove metal that it is to add metal...

 

A foot low at 30 yds will probably not be entirely corrected with increasing the load a few grains--but I'd try that first. Try about 75 grs and if that is low--file the "sight"--often you just have to learn how to hold a certain "picture" with no-rear-sight[url] smoothies....in[/url] rare cases the barrel has to be "bent" (or straightened) to get the round on target....I have seen barrels so crooked that you couldn't see one end through the other...about the only way to check that is to unbreech it, which I do not recommend unless you know what you are doing....the old timers held a taught string through the bore and looked for shadows to tip them off to crooked areas....

 

[squirejohn]

pharmvet - It is very common for smoothbores (fusils, fukes etc.) to shoot low. Many smoothbore shooters bend the barrel so they can look down along the plane of the barrel for a good sight picture. Others have learned to compensate using various techniques such as looking down the barrel and splitting the target with the front sight, or shooting with the barrel in a raised position and using the reflection of the front sight as a reference point (e.g. the reflection of the front sight to the first wedding band etc.). There are probably several other "tricks" that smoothbore shooters use to maintain a consistent elevated barrel reference point. At one time I considered bending my barrel, however my smoothbore barrel is relatively thin walled, in the white and heat waves off the barrel made for very distorted sight picture. You could however put on a rear sight - that should solve your problem unless you plan on shooting in competition that doesn't permit rear sights. Or you can do as I do - "wing it" and miss a lot :results:

 

Few things
First up the grains to 75 or 80 grains of 2F, this will bring your PI up quite a bit.
Second you have to learn to follow through, resist bringing it down of your shoulder. If you have ever shot archery you know what im saying. , Try and hold that sight picture through the smoke, this will also help improve your pattern as well
Lastly I only use my front sight for windage reference and the round of the barrel as my sight picture for RB shooting. Now that

 

[Deadeye]

Pharmvet, You don't need to file your front sight. You need to raise your rear sight(which is your eye) Tape a small block at the back of your barrel about 1/4" or so high
look across it at your front sight, raise or lower it til you see how high you have to hold your eye to get on target.You'r probably not elevating your eye above the flat of the barrel.
If it shoots left or right you can bend the barrel or move the front sight.

 

[Stumpkiller]

also considered filing my front sight some.

Surprised no one has mentioned IT AIN'T A SIGHT! It was never, ever ment to be used as a sight in the conventional manner. It merely helps define the middle of the barrel (if you're lucky enough to have one that is properly centered). That's the bayonet lug and you shouldn't even notice it is there. Look at the target, ignore the lug, keep both eyes open. Focus entirely, 100% on the target. Remember how you used to sight a sightless bow as a kid - by looking down, but not at, the arrow? Same thing. (I still do this for bowhunting). It's in your perphiral vision but not part of your focus. Your right eye corrects for side-to-side windage and your left eye corrects for elevation. Pick up a pen or pencil right now and hold four inches in front of but one inch lower than your master eye while looking at this screen. Notice (without looking) that there are two images in your vision when you look up here (KEEP LOOKING UP HERE WHILE DOING IT!!) Where those two images are pointing is where a ball would strike. That's a very simplified version of what's called the "split vision" sighting technique. The longer the pencil, or barrel, the more is in your field of vision and the better it works. Go get a yardstick, now.

Gravity keeps it from working well at long ranges, but practice, practice, practice with the musket will overome that as your brain learns the technique.

You don't want your head forward and smushed flat on the stock trying to sight down the top of the barrel (no wonder you're flinching, your cheek must be getting clobbered to get your eye in line with a sightless musket barrel!)

 

[makanaut]

My thought would be that since this is gun is new to you, maybe working up a load and sighting in should be done from a bench. I think this takes most guess work out. Once you know what the gun wants to shoot then try offhand. Shoot and become familiar with the gun before you file and bend.

 

First of all, how high is your front sight? IF it is excessively high, by all means, file it down a bit. 3/16" is plenty high enough.
: You much then re-shoot, increasing the chage, or raising your eye above the rear screw- whatever is required to get it shooting centre.
: Most knowledgeable smoothbore shooters end up bending their barrels to get them shooting centre.
: My bro's been shooting competition smoothbores for many, many years and has ALWAYS had to bend the barrel to get it shooting the way HE wanted it to. He uses snadbags and a lead hammer - gently- or between the box and cab of a pickup truck. While crude, it worked perfectly. DO NOT CREASE the barrel.

 

[Rat]

Wow...I'd sure put some nice period rifle sights on it before I'd go bending the barrel...that seems pretty extreme just to adhere to the "no sights on a smoothbore" philosophy.

As mentioned, many original smoothbores DID have sights. There is a revolutionary war musket in the NRA museum that does. It does not take a 21st century man to figure out that rifle sights will improve the accuracy of a smoothbore.

Try pulling the rear sight off yer rifle boys, replacing the front sight with a bayonet lug, and see what happens to the group!!!

Anyhow, I put long-rifle type sights on my Brown Bess carbine, and they really work well. The rear sight is a full buckhorn, which I am told is "post" revolutionary war, but...hey, that sucker shoots out to 75 yards now, the sights look totally at home and natural on the weapon, and the full buckhorn frames birds really good for when I'm grouse hunting.

Unless you are a re-enactor, or shooting in matches where the rear sight is not allowed....put some sights on that thing. It's o.k.

Rat

 

[Doc Arroyo]

Ok-I am going to go against the tide a bit.

If your shooting a foot low...aim higher! Don't use a six o'clock hold! Center the mass of the front sight on the bull and I bet you'll hit it. eace:

 

[Ohio Rusty]

Although I'm shooting a bigger, heavier ball (.690) I found several things shooting a Tulle was much different than a rifle. First was the amount of elevation needed to get it near the center. At 50 yards, I can't see the bullseye as the end of the barrel is covering the bull, and really most of the target ( using 100 Gr. of 2F), second, unlike a rifle, I have to drop my elbow more to get the Tulle tucked in so the rear of the gun is held stationary. Alot like the hold of a shotgun. I would also raise your powder charge, atleast to 70 grains, as if your shooting a .62, that is still a heavy chunk of lead and mean Mr. Gravity will make the ball drop quickly. Getting more velocity behind the ball will help you get closer to the center with the proper elevation of the front of the gun. You are not going to shoot clover leafs with it like you might with a rifle with front and rear sights. If you can keep it in the general area of a large bullseye thru practice, you are doing well with your Tulle. If you can hit a gallon milk jug everytime, you will be doing better than most ....
Ohio Rusty

 

[Wayne/Al]

I have a TVM fowler and I had some of the same problems you are haveing.
I was shooting low at about 30 yds and was convinced it was the gun . I even tried to bend the barrel It is hard to bend a barrel but thats another story. I was shooting with a friend one day and was told I was flinching . He took the gun and fired it a few times and was hitting with it. I have worked on my flinching alot over the last year and have finaly got on the target but I had to admit it was me not the gun........Im not saying you are flinching but it is possible.
I would suggest haveing a experenced flintlock shooter shoot the gun before bending the barrel changing sights ect.
Just my 2 cents worth.........I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide to do.
Wayne/Al

 

[pharmvet]

Wayne, I think you may be right, cause one of my buds seems to hit with my gun. I never realized how muched I flinched until I began shooting this flintlock. I will take the suggestions of shooting off bags to get the feel of where this gun is really shooting. Thanks for all of your suggestions. I am mainly happy that this is a common thing for fowlers. I was kinda down on my new gun.

 

[tg]

I hate to inject fact into a thread again, but the French Fusils had front sights not bayonet lugs, there are period drawings of guns and their parts that mention front and back sights..so at least back then they thought they were sights.

 

BTW- for a right handed shooter, hitting low and right of the aim point is the natural POI from a flinch. IF your buddy hits with it, but not you, then the sighting is not the porblem. You must learn to shoot the flinter accurately before hitting become commonplace.
: Unfortunately, a large bored flintlock gun is harder to learn to shoot, than a small bore flint lock gun. Keep your charge low, if that's what your buddy hits with.
: The fact that you are now admitting a possible flinch, you're 1/2 way to victory over this action. You must concentrate on the sight picture THROUGH the shot. You know if you shut your eyes - you must be honest with yourself or it's a lost cause. Wearing shooting glasses will help immensely with being able to keep your eyes open through the flash.

 

[Nightwind]

I had the same problem with my Colerain heavy 54 cal. flint Pennsylvania fowler. I did file the front sight down some, but it really took me about 300 shots before I learned to shoot it well. A steady follow through is MOST important! I can do clover leafs at 25 yds now.

 

Yeah - ain't it GREAT when it comes together!!!

 

[scroggwe]

I will have to agree with tg. The French fusils were not designed for the attachment of bayonets. The lug on the top of the barrel was in fact designed as a reference point for aiming the fusil. On military muskets, like the Brown Bess, the primary purpose of the square lug was for the attachment of the bayonet, but even this was used as front sight, whether it was designed for it or not. :m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I hate to inject fact into a thread again, but the French Fusils had front sights not bayonet lugs, there are period drawings of guns and their parts that mention front and back sights..so at least back then they thought they were sights.

Didn't realize that! I apologize for insisting it was a bayonet lug. I'm of a Bess mindset, I guess.

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.