"Henry .451 Volunteer" Rifle Arrives!

[RAEDWALD]

Ask nice.
He might swap!

Happy thought.........

 

[Cornbread]

Again, thank you for the replies.
My reason for asking if the “PN” was referencing the lock was because there’s the serif “P” and “N” or “H” on the lock bridle. What would those letters indicate if hidden in the wood? Are they inspected and approved stamps or something else?
This weekend I’m going to completely take the lock apart, clean it up and look for other things I may have missed.

CLEANING:
Will I need a special brush and cleaning jag for the rifling and octagon shape of thIs bore?

Cheers,
James

 

[toot]

Thanks, but all I did was copy an image out of my file and place it here in the reply. Beforetimes, I needed a degree in computer science to even begin to think about it, so I never bothered.

Here's another one.... Dyson-built Baker rifle. Underneath is a chamois leather-wrapped .62cal ball...an original, and shrunk over time, like most of us, I
guess.

View attachment 46606
View attachment 46607

now that sounds like a personal question? we all know that MOTHER NATURE takes care of SHRUNKAGE !!!

 

[TFoley]

Again, thank you for the replies. My reason for asking if the “PN” was referencing the lock was because there’s the serif “P” and “N” or “H” on the lock bridle. What would those letters indicate if hidden in the wood? Are they inspected and approved stamps or something else? This weekend I’m going to completely take the lock apart, clean it up and look for other things I may have missed.

CLEANING:
Will I need a special brush and cleaning jag for the rifling and octagon shape of thIs bore?

Cheers,
James

As I wrote earlier - PN means BLACK POWDER in Italian. The gun was made in Gardone Val Trompia, the gun-making region of Brescia, Italy, and will therefore have Italian proof house stamps in Italian. Comprehending that most of the rest of the world does not speak Italian, but a huge number of likely customers DO speak English, they also stamp the gun with the wording 'black powder only'.

As for the octagonal bore, I'm afraid that you've lost me on that one. The Whitworth rifle has a hexagonal bore, but I was unaware that the Henry rifling was octagonal. In any case, the answer is no, you'll not be needing a specially shaped brush or cleaning jag.

 

[Cornbread]

I mistook the Henry rifling for a specially rifled bore. I simply guessed out of not having been able to see inside yet.
So with that being said and my obvious lack of knowledge, does this take a special bullet? I figured a .451 meant it would not be a round Minie ball but something hexagonal with different rifling twists.

JR

 

[ResearchPress]

You won't need a 'special' bullet for Henry's polygonal rifling. A cylindrical soft lead grease groove bullet will do just fine. Diameter will be an issue, as you want a snug fit to the bore for loading - bullets for .45 breech loaders will generally be too big and sized to groove diameter.

David

 

[GREENSWLDE]

I would suggest what you are reading as PN is actually PH for PARKER HALE, PH was stamped on the Bridles of their Enfield style M/L locks. I don't know if it was copied on later copy locks by other makers. I am currently working on a P/H 1858 Henry rifled Short Enfield. I don't see Alexander Henry Rifling stamped on the side of the barrel. Parker Hale is on the barrel behind the Rear sight and BP PROOF MARK on the Knocks form. The rear of the Lock plate has a Crown over P-H. The cartouche stamped on the stock is about 2" in level with bottom of the butt plate.
The Bullet I have used in the past was from LYMAN mould 457125DM sized to .449" as recommended to me by the late DAVID MONK of P/H. This bullet also shoots well ln P/H Rigby Pattern 58 Rifles as well as my Cooper and Goodman 5 groove Ratchet rifled CBL used as a Muzzle loader Out to 1000..
Sorry to mention CBL Zonie but the 1861 patent says it can be used as a M/L if you run out of cartridges as with the W/R Monkey Tail.. OLD DOG..

 

[TFoley]

Here are three bullets of around .451" calibre - the first two are commonly shot in rifles like yours - after they have been lubed and sized - and the paper-patched item is for a Metford-rifled barrel with its very shallow grooves. Your rifle will shoot the first two.

Here's a Parker-Hale lock - as found on my Whitworth #888 -

and the other side - all proof marks are hidden underneath...

...and the Parker-Hale stamp.....................

 

[Cornbread]

GREAT replies and thank you for that added info! Clearly I’m a fresh fish to this rifle and this caliber.

It dawned on me much later that I typed “octagon”! OOPS!

Now that it’s the weekend I have time to read the kindly provided link: “Managing the Enfield” on a larger computer screen instead of by phone. I’m going to add the correct ‘Blockade Runner’ nipple cover (arrived yesterday) and I got my light to check the bore.

Are there any links or suggestions for attaching a tang sight to a rifle like this?

Thank you once again for replies, assistance and photos. It’s a big help.

James

 

[TFoley]

Here's an old friend, Dungspreader, late of this forum, and his Pedersoli version of the P-H rifle with a Lee Shaver Soule tang sight -

Please note that you'll also need a matching from globe sight, often round on a laterally-adjustable mount with a built-in bubble.

 

[SmokepoleSam]

Greensw"y"lde, about your missing "y" you should be able to go to the "forum announcements and support" forum at the top of the home page and Angie should be able to help you.
Sam

 

[TFoley]

Re Post #30 Erratum - in the last line, please replace 'from' with 'front'.

 

[ResearchPress]

Are there any links or suggestions for attaching a tang sight to a rifle like this?

With regards to tang sights, when I had a Parker-Hale Volunteer I simply screwed the base to the stock. Some have made custom mounts (and Pedersoli sell one I think) that are held in place by the tang screw.

if ‘period correct / spirit of the original’ have any bearing then British tang sights of the period were primarily elevation only adjustment at the rearsight and windage adjustment at the foresight. These military match rifles were in use during the 1860s. Although the Soule type sights are used by some today on these rifles, they weren’t patented by John Soule until 1889 in the US. Chances that these American sights from well into the breech loading era were ever used on an 1860s Britsh rifle are remote.

David

 

[GREENSWLDE]

William E. Metford,s single post Not Tang sight had a small amount of Windage adjustment..
See Viscount Bury's NRA Manual 0f 1864 pp.28. Mr.Turners pp.29 and a Swiss sight on pp.s 27 & 40.
Metford's sight was Not Tang mounted as such as it was mounted thru' the Wrist of the stock.
Dr Goodwinn's Opthalmic whilst not actually a true sight as there do not appear to be any elevation or windage markings,there was Windage adjustment. It appears to have been a daiopter to concentrate the pupil on the normal barrel and fore sight.. OLD DOG..

 

[toot]

now it is a beauty.

 

[ResearchPress]

William E. Metford,s single post Not Tang sight had a small amount of Windage adjustment......

I don't think I have ever seen one of those Metford sights drawn in Bury's book. Although by 1864 his 2000 yard rifle had seen used the Gibbs-Metfod match rifle didn't apppear until the following year. I have only ever seen elevation only rearsights on them. Alex. Henry also made rearsights with windage adjustment. And yes, the short lived Goodwin sight was designed as an orthoptic sight and used in conjunction with the barrel mounted sight and foresight - my orignal has no graduations on whatsoever.

David

 

[satwel]

Last post for the night...

After researching, I got some images of a Confederate used Kerr rifle. Down the road (if not before) I want to add a long range tang sight. That Kerr had a sight similar to the ladder style on the barrel. It didn't have a peep hole, only a sliding dovetail on the rails. Is there a repro of this style? Maybe my friends across the pond know what I'm referencing? Its not a Goodwin, Creedmore or anything else like I've seen.
In the meantime, the stock is HUGE and bulky. There's a TON of wood on it. I plan on reshaping it around the checkering (which looks nice from quick glance) because the barrel bands cut into the wood when they're taken off/put on.
After all the shaping and contouring is done, I'll lightly age the stock, possibly add an English silvered patch box since I'll most likely be removing the Parker Hale stamp when re-contouring, stain the American walnut a slight red more like English walnut, then coat the whole thing with multiple layers of linseed oil. I may remove all the blueing and age the bare metal with browning/blueing and/or light bleach. A good tang sight will be the last addition.

Thank you for all the comments. Keep em coming and I'll do my best to document my progress on "Alexander Henry: 2-Band Enfield Redux" once I start. After that...a rifle box and its accoutrements.

Cheers,
James

Cornbread,
I urge you not to use linseed oil if you decide to refinish your rifle stock. Linseed oil never completely dries, nor is the finish durable or weather resistant. There are many readily available gun stock finishes that are easy to apply and will provide a much more durable finish. I have used both Permalyn and Jim Chambers Oil with great success. I've also started working with Circa 1850 Tung Oil. After problems with early production M1 Garand rifles, Springfield Armory switched from a linseed oil to a tung oil finish. The rest, as they say, is history. True Oil, which is widely available, can also deliver a serviceable finish. It will be quite shiny but you can cut the shine back with a judicious rub of 0000 steel wool. A slurry of mineral oil and rottenstone is preferable and will create a more authentic satin gloss.

 

[Cornbread]

Satwel,
Thank you for that tip.
Coincidentally, I have a Garand stock I refinished back in the late 90’s and used straight linseed oil and heat from my hand to penetrate the bare wood. My dad (a USMC vet who was issued the M-14 rifle) said they rubbed linseed oil on theirs. With the moisture here in the Pacific Northwest, I doubt linseed oil would dry....not until summer of 2021 anyway!
Since then, I discovered Kramer’s Antique Improver and have used that on the Garand stock just as a periodic touch up plus my black powder rifles.

Last weekend I put the finishing touches on a Dixie Tennessee Mountain Rifle (pics to be posted soon) and I used tung oil. I like the results and finished look!

Once I get the Volunteer reshaped and sanded, (almost done) I’ll add a bit of stain and use what’s left of the tung oil or Kramer’s. Again, I’ll post photos after I’m finished either in a separate thread or as a reply here.

Cheers, James

 

[GREENSWLDE]

All to their own. When you have finished you will no longer have the Military match rifle that Parker Hale made from the original Drawings and Jigs from the British Pattern Room. As far as Linseed oil never drying, most of the old European shot guns and rifles had an OIL finish. Many still look as if they had just been finished. However Oil Finishing is an ART not found in a plastic can. As to drying. Research old paint manufacture. It's an education.. Oil finishing is lengthy, energetic and time consuming as is colouring. Best of luck but it will never be a Pattern '58 Military Match again. OLD DOG..

 

[TFoley]

For comparison - this is what my P-H Whitworth looks like, with regard to the stock colour, that is...

and, ignoring the fancy breech that we'll pretend isn't there, acknowledging that prior to conversion it was just another P53 Enfield, is one of my 'real' Enfield rifles -

...and another, of the same,. uh, style, but shorter -

Every couple of months I wipe them over with warmed-up BLO, and sit there for half an hour or so working it in to the wood. Just like the last owners have been doing since around 1860'something.

If anybody is interested in the way those folks in olden days got locks to fit in the stocks, well, here is the job they made of it back in 1862 -

And below, a 1974-made P-H Musketoon for comparison...