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Hey guys, an iron sight question

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newarcher said:
If the gun is setup so that when the rear crosshair and the bead on the front sight are in perfect alignment (and the shot criteria are the same as used to sight the gun in--powder, etc.), the gun hits at 50 yards....then the gun will hit at 50 yards regardless of who is shooting it. Right?

Nope, Alot of it has to do with physical aspects ei: hold, cheek, follow through, body mass and affected recoil. You can strap a gun to a bench and it will shoot the same, but put it in the hands of a human and each is different.

See those two people in my photo avitar? They are father and son, they both can shoot the same guns and have alot, And both shoot well. But Dustins consistant group with each gun is about 2" left and 4" low at 50yrds compared to John's. Those two guy's know that, and can thus share their guns and shoot somewhat accurately with each others guns because of the practiced knowledge.

I can hold my gun high on my shoulder, line up the sites perfect and get a different group than if I hold the butt low on my shoulder and line up the sights, consistant accuracy in group is much a part of consistant hold.
 
Two very good last posts...

I hadn't considered the body mass and follow through aspects.

Maybe my issue is that I was focusing more on centering the front sight in the rear sight. I will try the way suggested here.

New
 
You could still use the post as a front sight, in place of the blade, and use the peep and/or ghost ring as the rear sight and see if that helps.

Either way watch out for glare or a low in the sky sun that might throw off the aim of a good shooter.

Good luck!

Dave
 
With a kid that young, do him a big favor: Teach him to shoot a rifle, with open sights( or that peep sight) by getting him a single shot bolt action .22 rifle. with open sights. He can shoot a lot of ammo, at low cost, and learn marksmanship fundamentals.

I practiced with my .22 for years before getting serious about any center fire rifle, much less a mler. But, I learned sight alignment, stance, mount, breath control, squeezing a lousy trigger, and follow through, all using that .22 rifle. I still have it. I can still shot it pretty well, even after years of just leaving it in the closet when I take newer .22 rifles out to the range.

I don't believe there is any "quick way" to teach anyone to be a good shot. Oh, I can get them hitting targets all right, but so much of shooting is "muscle memory", that you have to spend the time shooting lots.

When I began shooting MLers, I stopped shooting all my rifles and handguns, while I learned to shoot my ML rifle. It was 2 years before I shot any kind of rifle other than my MLer, again.

The hardest thing to teach another shooter, and the hardest part of shooting is learning to focus on that front sight on your rifle, or handgun. Sight alignment comes next, but is infinitely easier to do if you are shooting a peep sight that is mounted no more than 5" from your pupil. You simply look through a peep sight and focus on the front sight. Now, where you place the top of the front sight, be it a post, bead, upside down wedge=whatever--- is really the choice of any given shooter.

No two shooters hold the front sight the same on a given target. Sometimes, you find that you can shoot good scores with someone else's gun, without changing the sights, but its an event noteworthy because it happens so rarely. I was showing a friend my shotgun slug barrel, one day, and fired the first shot through the x in the X-ring, and then fired the next two shots with the three holes overlapping. We were standing off-hand at 50 yds. I then gave him the gun, and loaded the last 2 rds. from the box into the gun and had him shoot the 2 shots. His two shots were just a bit high with one at 10 o'clock and the second at 2 o'clock each about 1 inch off from the first hole. The entire group of five shots could be touched with a silver dollar, and and even at the outside measurements, it did not go 3 inches.

He had not shot a shotgun shooting slugs in years, nor had he ever shot a gun with a recoil pad on it, or that fit him. He was delighted that his two shot landed so close to my small group. I have relieved the throat in my slug barrel, which prevents damage to the soft slugs as they leave the chamber, and casing. I also have the muzzle ported, to keep the recoil from making the muzzle climb. That was an experience for him to see and feel.

My only thought was how he had to have held up more of the front sight than I do, to have had those 2 shots hit so much higher and away from my group!

My Identical Twin Brother and I can shoot each other's guns and open sights fairly well, without changes. But that was not the case with our father's guns. He could not shoot ours either, without change the sight adjustments.

So, I personally believe you are doing a lot of wishing and hoping if you think your son will shoot those sights the same as you do. I don't mean that either of you will miss the paper target. But, its more likely that even with a scope sight, your POI will differ from his. That has been my experience both personally, and as a shooting coach with other shooters.
 
Paul said it well,

I started that kid at 5 with a single shot bb gun,,ei: I handed him one bb at a time, he never got to fill that thing with half a box of bb's. At 7 he got a single 22, no clip, no tube,,1 at a time. Then 9 the ML.
( :grin: he put 55 ball down that thing the 1st day he had it!) (the bruises didn't show up till Tuesday :wink: )

The part about sight picture too, some guy's center hold, some guys six o'clock,,etc,,,that's a tough part of the human brain, ya can't look out someone elses eyes. You can see them, but ya can't see what they see, we'er not even sure if everyone see's the same color, you know what you see is orange, only because that's the name of the color you see.(socrates~)

And it's true about the modern guns,,his scope setting is different than mine. The neat thing is I can work up a load for him, knowing his hold and have it pretty close, just minor adjustment needed. His grandfather doesn't get it, he has his brother sight in the rifle,,than wonders why the sighted in gun won't shoot right. :idunno:
 
You are correct if the sights line up the gun sould hit the same spot. Consistancy is the secret to repeating each shot. However there are a lot of things going on when that powder turns into a gas and pushes that ball on its way. For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction and your reaction is not consistant. When that gun goes off and the ball leaves the barrel your gun and stock turns into a tuning fork and vibrates up a storm. The way you stop that vibration is different than the way your son stops it. His cheek, shoulder and hands are not in the same place as yours nor are they the same size. This is the variable. It is no longer consistant. If you doubt this take your rifle and shoot it from a rest. Take three shots aim at the same spot everytime. If you are right handed keep your left hand off the gun entirely and keep your right hand, cheek,and grip the same. Move the rest 6" forward towards the muzzle take three more shots. Keep repeating until you get to the very end of the barrell. You may want to use a differnt target for each position but aim at the exact same spot on the targets every shot. You will watch that group change size and position from group to group. Enjoy your son and be safe. Life is good.
 
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