hi all am new to the post

i have been unting most od my life about 4 years ago a buddy of mine talked me into getting a inline. i fell in love with the big boom and the cloud of smoke. well finally got rid of my inline and i bought a hawken should be here in a few days. i have some questions i want to try to be as close to authentic as possible. i know i will have to tryand error to work up a load combo. but the question i have is do you need to use a wadding in between you patched round ball and your powder. any other help would be greatly appreciated and i mean any help now matter how trivial you think it is. by the by my hawken is a investarms and is a percussion and is a carbine. :yakyak: sorry but please i need all the help possible.

 

[Old Charlie]

I shoot a felt wad lubed over the powder. It keeps patches from being burned.I think I get a little better accuracy with them also.
Old Charlie

 

here is the gun i bought gun pic

 

[cayugad]

It looks like you have a fine rifle there. Whether a wad between the powder charge and the patched roundball will help is something you will have to experiment with. I have one rifle that shoots excellent with a wad while others, it seems to make no difference.

A lot of the time the kind of powder you are going to shoot will also make a difference. Since your shooting a cap lock, you can shoot any kind of powder out there for the most part. Triple Se7en, Pyrodex, APP, Clean Shot, Black Mag3, and Black powders. Since you stated you wanted to be more traditional, then you might want to try some Goex.

Goex in cap lock will work shooting both 3f and 2f grade. I personally shoot the 3f grade of Goex in cap locks and inlines as I feel I get less fowling and more pressure.

Start your rifle out around 80 grains of Goex and a patched roundball. Since it is an investarms it will probably like the larger of the two balls normally shot, but I personally would start out with the .490 for .50 caliber or .530 for .54 caliber. A .015-.018 patch and a good lube and you should be in business.

I have a Lyman Trade Rifle made by Investarms. It likes heavy charges. I shoot 100 grains of Goex 2f and a .530 patched roundball.

Good luck with the rifle. Hope it works well for you.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, don't worry about the wads.

I looked several times and didn't see the caliber so I'll go to plan two.

For starters, try using round balls and patches.
The ball size you need will be .005 or .010 less than the caliber. That would say buy either a .440 or a .445 diameter ball if the gun is a .45 caliber. If it is a .50 caliber, buy balls which are .490 or .495 diameter.

Although you will hear about how good striped pillow ticking is (and it is) for your first 100 shots, try using factory patches. I would suggest .012 or .015 thick ones.
You will have to lube these patches, so use one of the commercial lubes like Bore Butter or TC 1000.

Your first powder charge with either FFg, FFFg, Pyrodex RS or Pyrodex P should be about the same as the caliber, that is, for a .45, use 45 grains, for a .50, use 50 grains.
These are good safe starting loads, and often are the most accurate out to 50 yards.

The gun looked like a precussion, so buy #11 caps. If your shooting Pyrodex or other "new" powders, the CCI Magnum caps seem to work best. The RWS caps are almost as good.

Have fun!!

 

[Packdog]

Also be aware that the Investarms has a breech chamber that is smaller than the bore. You will need to pay special attention to cleaning that. Just wipping the bore clean will still leave powder residue in the smaller breech chamber. I had to use a smaller cleaning jag to get down in there to clean it.

As suggested, I would go with the smaller charges and work up and see what groups the best. Mine did not start shooting its best till I had put 100+ rounds down range.

PD

 

[bulletman]

a buffer wad opened my groups ALOT, may work for you maybe not.

 

[The Baron]

I'm finding a thin, lubed felt wad between the powder/PRB is working well in my .62 smoothbore. I was burning patches pretty badly without it. But, I'm still experimenting.

 

i'm sorry the calibre is .50. i thought i had mentioned that. i want to thank every one for their help so far and i will give all of this atry when me smokepole arrive, and post result . :redface:

 

[shmrck1]

jax12,
I have 3 investarms hawkens in percussion 2-.50cal
and 1-.54cal all are very fine shooters but as packdog has
eluded to for what ever the reason they require quite a few
rounds fired before they settle down.
In the .50's i use .490 RB with a lubed .15 patch
with 65grs 3fff goex for paper and go to 75grs when deer
hunting.
In the .54cal i use .530 RB with a lubed .15 patch
with 70grns 3fff goex for paper and 85grns for deer hunting. Keep in mine that every barrel is different and :results:
I have never used a wad over powder i guess i just
never saw the need for one.
I hope this information will be of some help!
snake-eyes :m2c:

 

[Rat]

I think, IMHO, IMVHO, (in my VERY humble opinion!) that you will be far more happy with the gun if you stick with Goex black powder, or better yet Swiss black powder from the get-go. Do NOT go over to the DARK SIDE! NO LUKE!

:imo:

Wonder Wads, which are felt wads, under the ball has increased accuracy, and reduced fouling in all my black powder guns. Your results, and everyone else's may vary!!

:results:

That looks like a nice Hawken...I love iron trim which I'm guessing from the pics your rifle has. Good looking rifle. You're going to like it WAY more than the un-line. I still can't walk around the house without carrying my Jaeger with me! But the wife is used to it. If it's not the Jaeger it's the Bess. The 1861 seems to knock more stuff over because of the longer barrel and that does irritate her sometimes.

:youcrazy: :cry:

Anyhow congrats and have fun. Welcome to "real" muzzleloaders.

Rat

 

thanks for all the help so far. today i went shopping!!
that went over like a turd in a puch bowl with the old lady.
anyways i got a ball starter, small brass powder flask (for now powder horn later), nipple wrench, 3f goex black powder, .490 .50 cal balls, .018 pre-lubed patches, and a nipple capper, cci magnum caps, a powder measure, and a partridge in a pair tree. this should be enough to play with for now. anything missing? all the help is greatly appreciated. if anyone has more advice, look out fors or oh by the ways please let me know. thank you in advance for the help guys. its sites like this that make these little life changes fun and safe . :thumbsup: :thanks: :hatsoff:

 

[Rebel]

Never pour a charge directly from a horn or flask for safety reasons. Put the hammer on half cock and make sure the spent cap is removed before loading. This will let air escape and allow a little powder to get into the flash channel under the nipple. Always clean your gun after firing it, even if only 1 shot. WATER is all you need for cleaning the BP fouling. A little liquid dish soap won't hurt any. Then rince with clean water. I then dry, spray some WD-40 down the bore and on a patch and run it in and out to displace any moisture. Then oil and you are done. Good idea to check the bore with a clean patch for the next couple of days to be sure no rust is forming. Be safe and have fun.

 

[Zonie]

Assuming you still have a cleaning jag, it sounds like you have about everything you need.
You didn't list a metal loading rod (some call it a Range Rod) and you really don't need it but it's a nice thing to have if your going to be shooting at a range or someplace where you will be firing a lot of shots without walking far distances.

Without a metal range rod (with a nylon or metal muzzle guide to keep the rod centered in the bore), you will be loading with the wooden ram rod that comes with the gun.

A word of caution: When you get your gun, check the ramrod to see if the woods grain is running out the side of the wood.
If it is like the picture, you are at risk.

If the wood grain is running out the side of the ramrod, it can fracture along the grain lines and break. This has been known to leave a sharp end that can easily be run into your hand while your pushing down hard.
If you don't see the end grain, you still need to use caution when loading.

Ram the patched ball in steps. Don't try to grab the ramrod at the top and push it down in one move.
By ramming in steps, you won't bend the ramrod, which can also break it.

Have fun and Good Shooting to you.

 

[Packdog]

Sounds like you got the majority. I did not see patch worm or ball puller. My very first trip to the range was cut short due to loading a ball without powder. I had to run to Wally World in search of a ball puller.

Suggestion: Take a pencil and make a mark on your rod at the end of the muzzle when you get you powder and ball loaded. That will help you notice if you by chance double load or something like that. Your rod will not go down in as far. Once I work up a load that my gun likes then I make a more permanent mark on my range rod.

I know your probably saying "I'll never do that". You'd be amazed at what you can forget when someone gets to talking to you. It doesn't matter how many years you been shooting.

Good Luck and Good Shooting!
PD

 

[jackc]

Jax:

Welcome to this forum and your new addiction as well. Once you get a taste of black powder you really can't go back!

The only thing I can add to the above posts is pretty obvious but it's something I tell all new shooters I meet is to get yourself some good reference books on loads, safety, etc. Sam Fadala has written some of the best all around reference books I have read (IMHO). The Lyman Black Powder Handbook was written by Sam and I understand it's pretty good. I have his original Complete Blackpowder Book and still refer to it occassionally.

If nothing else, this type of reading material beats anything on television.

Good Luck! :m2c:

 

[Rat]

Zonie is right.

Also, some of us/many have found that loading for target practice and working up loads is better down with a heavy "range rod", and then save the rifle's rod for when yer actually out hunting, or shooting in the field.

I make good ones out of 1/2" dowell from the hardware store, (that might be too big for a .50", or maybe just right, and I go to the auto wrecking yard and get a gear shift knob for the end, which they usually don't charge me for. Stain, it, candy stripe it, epoxy the knob on, and use an old cartridge case for the ramming end and you are all set. Ramming end can be left plain wood too.

Rat

 

[Charles/NM]

For a range rod I use a shotgun cleaning rod with a cupped brass tip and brass bore guide to keep it from rubbing on the barrel lands.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Hey There!

I'll throw this little bit of data in with the others--which was all good information. When you're first firing your rifle, it's a good idea to shoot in a place where you can find your fired patches. Occasionally... if you notice that you're blowing through patches, you might take another unlubed patch and ram that one down first--all crumpled up on top of the powder. It's a good way to see if the "burn through" on the ball's patch stops. If it does, something you'll have to experiment some more with patching and loads.

It is a "by guess, and by God" thing sometimes--at least it must be, 'cause I've sure heard His Name mentioned a lot when people have problems at the range...hmmmm? Don't get frustrated if things don't go as expected right off. Whoever said "patience is a virtue" must've been talking about muzzleloaders.

With all that said, you're in for a great time and it is so addictive--like coconut macaroons, or pecan pie, or whatever your favourite is... There is just something about pulling back that big hammer and knowing that YOU are the ONE that made the thing work! I will say also, that once you're accustomed to them.... you have got to get at least one Civil War era musket. The Ka-Boom from a bigger bore is especially neat and again that even bigger hammer to pull back... gotta love it!!!

Above all remember my motto -- Shoot Safely!
Best Regards,
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Mr Nick]

jax 12.
I bought the same gun from the same person on e-bay. It came in 2 weeks ago but I've been out of town and haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.