Historical horn making questions

[Stophel]

I am wondering if powder horns would have had their end plugs sealed in, like with pitch, or if they simply relied on the heat-pressed fit of the plug to keep it sufficiently airtight.

Also, were they always trued up and made round at the end, or were the plugs sometimes simply shaped to fit the existing off-round horn shape? I have never really taken the opportunity to examine any American powder horns up close, and none of my photos show the ends well enough for me to say "aha! there's one!". You can, of course, tell when you have the big, obviously-turned plugs (which also often have bulges in the horns where they were pressed in), but the other ones, I just can't tell.

 

[Robert Egler]

I don't actually know historically, but I've made a few powder horns over the years and made the plug to fit the not-round natural horn. Until I read on here a few years ago about boiling the horn whenever I saw other people's horns I always thought "How the heck do all these people find round end horns?" :haha:

 

[omarick1948]

You can leave the plug not sealed if you have a very snug and tight fit, but weather humidity and other moisture can seep in over time and dampen the situation. I suggest sealing with bee's wax or a quality yellow carpenters glue.___If you read though many of the threads here in Craftsman, you can see several methods about rounding powder horns. Yes, there are many original horns left with their natural not rounded
shape. I personally round about 99% of my engraved powder horns, as I think that it gives the nicest look for engraved powder horns. For more homespun or primitive styled horns, I leave natural shaped. For rounding, I now only use hot oil at about 325 degrees, as water can only get to 212 degrees and not hot enough for thicker walled horns.

 

[Stophel]

Cool, thank you. The particular horn I'm currently working on is very nearly round anyway. I already fitted a plug to it before I started to wonder... Now I need to see if I can rustle up some brad nails that I can make to look like 18th century nails...

 

[crockett]

I'm just passing on what I have been told. I was told that most folks didn't make their own powder horns, they bought them and the outfits that produced them worked pretty quick with the horner and several apprentices, etc. These shops, (to the best of my knowledge) turned out round horns- it was a lot faster than fitting every horn plug to the natural shape of the horn.
Daniel Boone, in his final years, made powder horns for family members- could have had non-round plugs that fit the natural shape of the horn (William F. Cody Book was the source).
So, as has been said, both are pc but if it is an "upscale" horn, probably best if round.

 

[Bagman]

Stophel.

Two questions. Place and Time? It matters in how your original posting...is answered. :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

3rd quarter of the 18th century. Pennsylvania. I do not have a "persona" (it depends upon whatever type of gun I happen to be building at the time!), so no need to be any more specific.

 

[wattlebuster]

I have 3 horns made by Scott Sibley an they are airtight. I have made around 10 horns myself and I plugged them in their natural shape and beeswaxed them so they are airtight too. I dont know what is HC/PC but i do know I like and use both :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

I've had some pine pitch for years, and never done anything with it (other than mix some in to leather dressing), and I'm gonna play around with it and see what I can do with it. It should not only seal it up, but it's supposed to make a rather tenacious glue. :hmm:

 

[crockett]

Well if Pennsylvania, some of the most beautiful were from there- examples in Kaufmann's The Kentucky-Pennsylvania Rifle- very good book and on the net maybe $10 used. I'd think about a screw tip with fancy base plug- You can make a little lathe operated on a hand drill and a 3/8 rod secured in a wood box with epoxied puttied ball bearing. Then you can do it right, cost nothing much to set up.

 

[Bagman]

3rd quarter of the 18th century. Pennsylvania. I do not have a "persona" (it depends upon whatever type of gun I happen to be building at the time!), so no need to be any more specific.

Actually, you do.

Smooth or rifled will determine the horns size.

 

[hawkthrower]

Bagman, I don't think it really matters as to place, time would have an effect on some styles and amounts of decoration but simple horns that were not rounded will fit almost any time or place. Being from Pa. Would make it more likely to be a shop made horn but a simple homemade style would have been in almost every house for general use. Also , not to sound like a know it all because I surely don't, horn size would have been based on how it was to be used more than what caliber or whether it was rifled or smoothbore gun.

Ron

 

[bubba.50]

or maybe the size of the cow :haha: .

 

[Bagman]

Well....There is the militia requirement in the 3rd quarter of the 18th century. If sufficient powder and shot are required for a musket...it is of more volume then a rifle.

I have never handled a campaign sized horn that had a true round plug.

Pine pitch/tar has been used in horn repairs. It may have been used as a plug sealent. Melted beeswax is used to this day to seal a horn plug from the inside.

 

[hawkthrower]

That's very true. The length of a hunt or militia requirements would definitely make a difference. As far as sealing a horn I would also agree on the beeswax. I have never tried pitch mixtures
Ron

 

[crockett]

Question....I think a musket usually uses a lot heavier powder charges than a rifle. So...I never thought about this aspect but were different horns used with rifles and muskets? In other words, you might need a larger horn if using a musket. On a militia aspect I thought rolled paper cartridges but certainly muskets were used with horns for hunting with a musket or by native peoples, etc.

 

[Artificer]

I've had some pine pitch for years, and never done anything with it (other than mix some in to leather dressing), and I'm gonna play around with it and see what I can do with it. It should not only seal it up, but it's supposed to make a rather tenacious glue. :hmm:

I would not be at all surprised if pine pitch was used at least somewhat commonly and especially for horns that were not heated/formed round in the base. Pitch was well known for lining leather Drinking Jacks to make them leak resistant. It was also a basic ingredient of cutlers' resin in the period.

I am not sure, but I think the original horn I linked in an earlier thread on this forum, with the broken out horn over the base plug, shows pitch was used on it?

Here is the link to that horn. http://www.fortticonderoga.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/IMGP2964.jpg

Gus