Historical use of powder measures

[Artificer]

One thing we either don't know or tend not to think about is how popular bone marrow was to eat in the 18th and 19th centuries. They often "buttered" their bread/toast with it in place of or in preference to butter. This was also not just the frontier, as it was hugely popular in large cities as well - as evidenced by the huge number of bone marrow spoons extant from the period and that includes many silver high status ones.

I make this point because if a person needed a replacement powder measure on the frontier, they already regularly hollowed out bones to eat the marrow.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

"VII. As the yearly allowance of Ammunition is very small, except of Service, every method is required for oeconomy, if a Commanding-officer wishes to have it in his power, to practise his Battalion to fire, as often as it is necessary for its improvement;, the Cartridges therefore used at common Exercise should not be under sixty to a pint, [117 grains] though at other times, fifty may be the calculation." [140 grains]

"VIII. The Pioniers, under the direction of the orderly Corporals, should make up the Cartridges for Exercise, but if more are wanted than can be done in time, a proper number of men must be appointed to assist them, for which they are to be allowed duty, in the Roster of fatigue."
Cuthbertson.

So the military had some sort of measure(s) and enough to allow additional men to be mustered to help to make cartridges.

LD

 

[Artificer]

I've seen quotes from the British Ordnance Board (London) AND the Ordnance Board at Plymouth that mentioned powder measures for making cartridges as well as specific "cartridge paper." However, much to the chagrin of folks like you and me, they never describe them in the quotes I have so far found.

Gus

 

[Gene L]

The contemporary drawings of arquebusiers show a bunch of what I think might be pre-measured tubes of powder attached to their belts and secured by cordage. That probably was a lot safer than loading from a horn with a smoking match nearby. So the concept of using pre-measured charges has I believe been around a LONG time.

I sat down tonight with my powder measure and some little glass vials to weigh powder beforehand. The measure I bought at Wal-Mart about 20 years ago. I had never weighed the charges, but wanted to quantify it. I bought the measure for my .32 rifle and it seemed about right just eyeballing it. I thought the spout was about a 20 gr. drop, and was amazed at how accurate the measure was. I would drop the powder into the pan of the scale to get the mass and to see how accurate the measure was.

It wasn't 20 grains but consistently threw 23.5 grains +- 1/10 and only one drop shy about 3/10 of a grain. Usually about a half of a tenth variance.

This is about as accurate as my Harrell's measure with ball smokeless powder.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yes! The pre measured tubes were called Apostles.
Measuring powder goes all the way back to Roger Bacon.
Powder flasks with measures go back at least as far as the 1500's

 

[Gene L]

I wonder if they were called Apostles because of the number of them? j (12?) Didn't know they were called that.

 

[coloradoclyde]

It's debatable. http://www.ecwsa.org/miltherewerenotwelveapostles.html

 

[Gene L]

Hmmm....while not technically accurate, 12 apostles is what was taught and believed at that time. I have no idea if that's why the Apostles was the assigned name and the idea came to me before I read anything on it. Seems logical.

 

[Artificer]

I have also read where they were called "chargers" with various period spellings.

They were normally carried by soldiers and militia men for quick reloads before paper cartridges began to be used, while the soldier still usually carried a sort of triangular shaped powder container in addition to them.

What I don't know is if they were marked inside to show the proper powder charge, or if they were bored just deep enough for the proper powder charge, OR if the charges were measured before powder was poured in them.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

Hmmm....while not technically accurate, 12 apostles is what was taught and believed at that time. I have no idea if that's why the Apostles was the assigned name and the idea came to me before I read anything on it. Seems logical.

Personally I think the term "Apostles" was a literary "liberty", although it may have actually been an individual quote of a writer during the period that has just been repeated.

 

[omarick1948]

I'm surprised about no one mentioning wooden powder measures.

I have lathe turned many wooden powder measures. They work, of course, and look neat. But, to me, they just don't have the olde timey appeal of one made from bone or antler.

Might be, but they didn't worry about looking "Old Timey" back at that time, as it was a tool of daily life.

 

[Artificer]

Which, if I may be so bold to suggest, brings us to an important point. Today we often do things "sideways" from how they did it back then. :wink:

They often, if not usually got all at one time - a gun and a mold and a powder measure - at least in the case of a rifle made in the Colonies. I strongly suspect if it was a smoothbore gun made in the colonies, they also got a measure with it, as well. That first measure is more often documented as either a tinned iron or copper single tube measure. OK, so what happened if they did not get a measure with the gun or something else happened? Well that depended on a lot of things.

So if the powder measure got lost, damaged or they did not get a measure - we know they may or even probably poured powder over a ball as a rough or starting measure - at least. If the gun was a civilian fowling piece, they probably were not that far from someone who could have sold or made a replacement tinned iron or copper one and someone who could afford a fowling piece could afford a replacement measure. If it was a Trade Gun, same thing probably applied as did a rifle.

Early Frontier folk would not have had much time to make a fancy measure. WAY too many things they had to do for survival much of the year. Also, when young men or young couples started out; they often did not have the funds to buy a new measure, so had to "make do" as well. At this stage, the person probably made the replacement powder measure out of whatever material and tools he had at hand. A wood powder measure probably would have been the easiest thing to get the material and make a new measure with the least tools required. If of other materials were available, those materials may/would also have been used and probably still with what was easiest to make. Later on, if time, tools, funds, materials became available, the gun owner may have made another measure out of something else.

I agree with Rick, a wood replacement powder measure probably was the most common "first" replacement on the frontier. This unless they happened to have had a bone or piece of cane that required less work. However, that does not in any way preclude a fancier powder measure could and was made if the person wanted later on, when they had more tools, time or money.

Gus

 

[Zonie]

IMO, making a wooden powder measure would have been a very simple chore for the people living "back in the day".

A iron rod or even just an iron nail heated red hot in the fireplace or campfire coals and then held with some pliers or tongs will easily burn a nice cavity into a piece of wood.

A deep hole might take several reheating's but that is no problem.

As for the time needed to do this, after supper and before going to bed there really wasn't a whole lot to do unless you wanted to read.
Even then, most likely, the wife would read out loud to the whole family while you were busy filling the cabin with smoke with your powder measure project. :grin:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

How about cane as a material for a powder measure?

Regards,
Pletch

 

[George]

For what it's worth, writing in _General George Hanger to all Sportsmen, Farmers, and Gamekeepers_ in 1814, but describing his experiences in the colonies during the AWI, Gen. George Hanger had this to say about powder measures:

"I will next tell you how they judge what quantity of powder is necessary for their rifles, on active service: for shooting deer, &c. in peaceable times, they never put in more powder than is contained in a woman’s thimble. They take the horn of a deer, make several trials with a ball, always on the powder, and when, by each time increasing the quantity of powder, they find the rifle rather throws back, that is to say, has a recoiling motion, they draw off a small quantity of the powder, cut the horn off, and use it for the actual service before an enemy."

Spence

 

[garra]

Here are some rustic ones I made from limbs from a dead peach and cherry tree. Since I started using them, my accuracy has improved.

 

[MSK]

This is a great thread. In the early days of the Colonies, to around 1720 or so, small lead cups were regularly used as powder measures. These are quite often excavated by archaeologists and detectorists. The first example below shows one with fastening loops; the second is the more typical, simple cup. It is obvious that these would have been quite easy to make from a cheap and readily available material.

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[George]

How about cane as a material for a powder measure?

Funny you should ask, Pletch, I just made one.



As an aside, I find occasional references to Indians using their chargers as signaling devices. A couple from Frontier Memories:

1793 John Crawford "The Indians kept their back spies, I heard them blowing on their chargers in the night."

John Rankins "The Indian came down to the Lick; seen where our horses had been along, raised his charger and gave a whistle, 4 other Indians immediately came up."

Anybody know what kind of material would make a charger with the sweetest sound? :haha:

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

:applause: :applause: :hatsoff: Smollett.

Do you know how much powder they held?

 

[coloradoclyde]

I did some research and do not believe that those lead cup were powder measures, but rather caps belonging to a bandolier. or the cap from a pre charged measure of powder.