Historically Incorrect, or (A Story of Thread Counting and Delrin Rods)

[FishDFly]

Was in Phoenix at the Winter shoot years ago and was listening to a guy talking about being PC/HC as he was caring on. His leathers looked like he was a mechanic in a Harley shop.

Was I found fascinating, was the Blue Tooth stuck in his ear.

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

I think it's interesting and I'd be keen in meeting the guys that dress and act the part, would even enjoy sharing a camp but it's not my thing.
I don't think I have a camp though, just a blend somewhere in the middle. I'm fascinated by the simpler times on many levels including hunting. I don't wear PC clothing but I also don't wear modern camo, most of my hunting is stalking but if I'm in a tree I use stands made of wood and nail, I don't really like using scopes but i use binoculars, I make most of my fires with flint not matches and I use sabots and Round balls.

What i probably do have in common with many of the purists is that I live in a house with electricity, drive my car to hunting areas and keep my meat in a freezer. As long as people respect the way I do things and don't criticise I'll always do the same for them.

One of my fathers best friends has a farm a little down the road. They have electricity for lighting but only have a wooden stove and oven, they play music instead of owning a TV, he used a horse to get around the farm more than a vehicle, felled trees with a saw and axe and did most everything else by hand. He's been Australian blade shearing champion and csmr 5th in the world a couple of years ago. Always felt like being around his family was a step back in time and I loved it.

 

[Musketeer]

As I stated in another thread, I appreciate HC guns and I admire those who are dedicated to reproducing them as closely as humanly possible, but I am also a fan of historical possibility and am willing to use this concept with regard to my own guns. By historical possibility I mean something that could have been done at the time, given the knowledge, materials and technology of that specific period, though there may be no extant examples of such or period documents indicating that it was ever done. Obviously, putting a molded Zytel stock on your newly-made Bess would fall outside of this, since the technology hadn't been discovered at the time; however, mounting a rear sight to said gun or building it as a "sporterized" gun with a half stock are things that could easily have been done way back when, whether anyone actually did so or not.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I try to keep things looking old timey, but I am not always HC to the period. I do have lots of period correct stuff for the 1870-1890 era just because of a keen interest in the old west, and the fact that I was lucky enough to do day work for a bunch of years on a fairly large cow outfit. For example I have a set of bronze spurs dating back to the 1890's and a wool coat from a pattern of the same time period. My wooly chaps are based on the 1880's style.
As for my new interest in muzzle loaders, my hat's off to any of you folks that are true to the period and history. I will do my best to honor it whenever and however I can too. I think that's part of the experience for me when shooting these muzzle loaders. I may go back to the fixed iron sight on my Frontier one day but for now I would rather enjoy taking it to the range than getting frustrated....hence the very un-PC ladder sight...at least I am shooting a muzzle loader

 

[Rudyard]

If anybody turned up on the range here in UK dressed up like Jeremiah Johnson it would -

a. cause a few comments.

b. not last long because the men in white coats would have been called pretty soon after he arrived to take him away in one of those hard-wearing jackets that, for some reason, have the sleeves on back-to-front...

Unless you have been specifically invited to do so, say, for a guest day and to demonstrate your ol' Betsy, it would be unheard of. In fact, in all the years I've been shooting here in UK, and that's quite few, on and off, I've never seen it happen. A couple of years back I was laffed at because I was wearing my old Confederate Corporal of Artillery jacket and kepi, even though I WAS shooting a Musketoon, like the real person might have done. I was reminded by one of the usual 'Jobs-worths' that the wearing of military uniform whilst engaged in recreational shooting was a no-no. I reminded her of the other meaning of the word 'recreational', to no avail. 'Take it off, or take off' was the response.

And of course, rendezvous's, like you all take for granted in the USA, are definitely a non-no as far as live-firing with projectiles is concerned - most everywhere in the world, I'm betting, except the USA. Walks in the woods, shooting at REAL targets with live ammunition? C'mon, folks.

Aren't you guys lucky?

What is so frightfull about Woods walks? I know in UK its considered a no no but thats just govt bumph. I cant say for Australia but I expect like NZ they do have primitive events & woods walks . As for Costume there are huge events in UK not live fire though I recall the 'Fancy dress' at Bisley early MLAGB . got us banned to Short Siberia from the Running deer . But there are events on some ranges . . Stenning was one I beleive . I have hunted primitive and gone historic on occasion not US style but historic tinder box even matchlock rifle . All good stuff .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Omahkapi'si]

What I like about being older? I don't give a crap what anybody thinks anymore. Dress how you want and enjoy your firearms; life's short and we're a long time dead.

 

[kje54]

As I stated in another thread, I appreciate HC guns and I admire those who are dedicated to reproducing them as closely as humanly possible, but I am also a fan of historical possibility and am willing to use this concept with regard to my own guns. By historical possibility I mean something that could have been done at the time, given the knowledge, materials and technology of that specific period, though there may be no extant examples of such or period documents indicating that it was ever done. Obviously, putting a molded Zytel stock on your newly-made Bess would fall outside of this, since the technology hadn't been discovered at the time; however, mounting a rear sight to said gun or building it as a "sporterized" gun with a half stock are things that could easily have been done way back when, whether anyone actually did so or not.

That's primarily the category I fall under. Mostly because in certain areas documentation, extant examples are extremely limited but we can make some "assumptions" based on what we know of human nature that has never changed throughout humankind's history. Does anyone really think "knock-offs" are a relatively new phenomenon? We also know there are people today that still wear styles from the 70s, 80s and 90s or that older styles aren't occasionally "recycled" to the general buying public, does anyone think that is a new phenomenon? Second hand (thrift stores) are really nothing new, we know they existed in the mid to late 1800s.

 

[kje54]

What I like about being older? I don't give a crap what anybody thinks anymore. Dress how you want and enjoy your firearms; life's short and we're a long time dead.

In this instance I believe we're referring more towards living history and reenacting. What you want to wear on a daily basis or when hunting is up to each individual person.

 

[Dale Lilly]

I have been making and shooting muzzle loaders for at least sixty years. I have been to a few rendezvous where I was the most authentic mountain man there. I have also been to some where I could take home the prize for 'least authentic'. All have been great fun and I have learned and taught at each. My guns are relatively inexpensive and I like building and having many which could not be true if I demanded 'absolute authenticity' with my limited financial resources. I also enjoy giving guns and accoutrements away which is easier to do with a kit guns I built for .. maybe $300 [watching for bargains] than for a gun that cost me $2000, and I can do it more frequently. In the last year I have gifted six guns .. three rifles and three pistols. My neighbor got one and my wife's kids got some as did my kids. I love what I do. I intend to have a gun half built when I make my eternal journey and thirty or so in my cabinets for Betty [or my daughter] to sell, give away or whatever. I do try to make and buy guns that are 'reasonable facsimiles' of those my ancestors used from the revolution to the Rocky Mountain fur trade era. I also have clothing that looks 'pretty much' like they would have worn. Betty [Li'l Sparrow] and I have fun when we are engaged in any aspect of muzzle loading and we don't have anything to say about what others may choose to do. I admire the custom guns that I see here and at rendezvous but my arrow floats a different direction. I love what you do and appreciate each one who helps to keep our addiction alive. Blessings on all of you. Polecat

 

[Daryl Crawford]

I'm not one that dresses the part. I'm not particularly HC/PC with all my accoutrements. I guess I am with my fowling piece, but again, that hasn't been my focus. I've considered getting an outfit to be able to attend a camp, but money isn't often able to go in that direction. If I do build a kit it would be 1750s-1760s to go along with my fowling piece.
I'm a hunter first and I'm drawn to primitive weapons. I like longbows and flintlocks because they demand more from me. In a previous career I had my fill of modern weapons so I want my pleasure time with primitive weapons.
I appreciate folks who do the research and have the knowledge of their chosen eras. I don't care for those who look down on someone who isn't as interested in being HC, and feel the same about those who would slam someone for wanting to be HC.
I'm hoping this year to get to a camp so I can see what it is all about. I'm sure what I will like is the shooting and the people. Will I be a "stitch counter," no, but if I do decide on a kit I will want to make sure it is good enough and PC enough that it fits in. I'd want to do well enough so as to respect the others present.

 

[Musketeer]

We also know there are people today that still wear styles from the 70s, 80s and 90s

If I still had hair I'd totally rock an '80s "Flock of Seagulls" hairdo. Might raise a few eyebrows at the range, but meh...

On second thought, the vent flash from Bessie might set it on fire.

 

[TFoley]

What is so frightfull about Woods walks? I know in UK its considered a no no but thats just govt bumph. I cant say for Australia but I expect like NZ they do have primitive events & woods walks . As for Costume there are huge events in UK not live fire though I recall the 'Fancy dress' at Bisley early MLAGB . got us banned to Short Siberia from the Running deer . But there are events on some ranges . . Stenning was one I beleive . I have hunted primitive and gone historic on occasion not US style but historic tinder box even matchlock rifle . All good stuff .
Regards Rudyard

Rudyard, you and I, and anybody else who lives in the UK, knows that walking around the woods and using a rifle to hunt deer - over here it's called stalking - is a perfectly acceptable and legal way of burning powder and getting game. But ONLY where the land has been deemed shootable, and then only if it is a registered 'permission'. Getting togged up in 18th or early 19th C equipment and meandering around, even with a bunch of other folks of similar mind, shooting at 'marks', just any old where, as they seem to do in the USA, is something I'd like to see, but never will.

It's not a matter of it being government 'bumf' it is the law that prevents it from ever happening.

As a matter of some interest, whilst out 'going historic' were you wearing clothing and equipment contemporary with the firearm you were shooting?

 

[kje54]

If I still had hair I'd totally rock an '80s "Flock of Seagulls" hairdo. Might raise a few eyebrows at the range, but meh...

On second thought, the vent flash from Bessie might set it on fire.

Would that be a brush fire.......?

Was doing a WWII living history event in Lancaster PA eons ago, had a guy show up kinda, sorta dressed like Major Arnold Ernst Toht from Raiders of the Lost Ark...... He would open up his leatherette coat exposing all sorts of "torture" devises. Needless to say he was quickly invited to leave by the event sponsors and he did so in a huff.

 

[longcruise]

For many years I maintained a strict 20th century personna, but for the past 20 years I've moved on to the 21st century. Much easier to be HC that way!

 

[rmark]

I don’t re-enact I just like to shoot old style guns. My range box is yellow plastic and it sits on the folding plastic table. I regularly apologize to the folks around me about the acrid cloud of smoke drifting around them.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

In the 70s and 80s we made a lot of own gear, so it not only looked period, it looked worn also.
Then came the 90s and the internet. Now you can buy everything, so good some not.
I had my frock and britches made of number 4 sail canvas. I still wear them today.
The gal that made them lived in rural PA, how rural you ask? He daughter left the mud room door open than a pile of piglets ran into the house while we were talking about clothing.
Got my mucs in 94 from the Arrow Moccasin Co. Still have them, still wear them. Arrow is no more :-(
My fowling bag came from England, same with my wool blanket coat kit.

All my gear was custom made by folks that know way more about PC/HC then I ever knew.
Somewhere in the late 90s while at the flying M ranch in Oregon. Some lady had asked me if she could take my picture and fill out a release. Dang got my self on the cover of some ML magazine. She told me I looked like I just stepped out of a time machine.

Well, my rifle is 20 years too new. for my outfit. No one has said a thing in 30 years.
The late Ketland lock is what is out of date.
Being that it out shoots most of them, Im not changing a thing.

 

[Carbon 6]

Thoughts?

I always thought this was one good explanation.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/why-tradition-matters.40973/post-475558

 

[Bob McBride]

I always thought this was one good explanation.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/why-tradition-matters.40973/post-475558

I haven’t read that in some time. Good read.

 

[MTGUNNER]

For the moment.

AMEN

 

[Spikebuck]

It's funny that now-a-days we want to act like the people did back then, but the people back then would have probably thrown away in a heartbeat things they had to have much of the modern stuff we have now!

I like more "historically correct" guns just because I think their beauty and craftsmanship cannot be beat. Do they shoot any better than a TC "Hawkins"? Nope. But I know which one I'd rather spend time looking at and shooting. I got into what I will just call "period" clothing because I wanted to get a feel for what people "back then" lived in day to day. When it's zero out, just how well does a Capote keep one warm (when also dressed under it in things similar to what they would have been wearing.) How well do animal hide mocs keep feet warm with my feet in wool inside them? Do I really need the latest and greatest Bill Jordan camo or will my green hunting frock work in the turkey woods? Well, I can listen to others give their opinions or I can find out for myself. I usually like the latter.

I don't attempt to be sure everything I have matches the same period and I call my clothes "representative" and not necessarily totally HC, but I admire those that do strive for that perfection and understand their passion. We have many great examples on this forum of walking libraries of pre-1865 knowledge and I love learning from them here. We have many guys here that don't own any "period correct" anything, but they always have great things to share as well that I can learn from. I have my path, others have theirs, but they all converge someplace. We can all share and learn from each other. It's all good.