"Hog" Rifle

[Docwilly]

Need opinions/ history. Im gonna build a Tennesee "hog" rifle. Got the 42" full length walnut stock inletted for a 1" channel. I know they typically used iron furniture & thats OK. I was going to put in a L&R Maston Flint lock (is that OK?). & punch the caliber to 58 (like to go 62, but dont want to order a special). (would 50 cal. be more typical?) I can find little history on a "Hog" rifle, are they the same as a Tennesee Rifle?

In advance I thank all who respond.

Docwilly

 

[Birddog6]

I am not a historian but most of the Hog Rifles that I have seen were of long slim barrels such as a 13/16" & small bores such as a 40 cal. Also lots of them had no buttplates or triggerguard & extremely plain & usually made of maple but a few of other wood. Sometimes referred to as a Poorboy rifle. Because of the long straight barrel these rifles are very muzzle heavy even with a thin barrel. Unless you are one big feller, such aa rifle with a 42"x 1" barrel will take a fence post on the muzzle end to hold it up in 40 cal. All of them I have seen had a large Siler style lock.

 

[musketman]

If I was hunting "WILD HOGS", I would go with the .54 caliber...

Mostly because I've seen the movie RAZORBACK.

The Wild Boar, pigs, Russian Boar, European Wild Boar, Piney-Woods Rooters, Razor Backs can be frightning with only one shot... One must also remember, they travial in packs.

What a rush that would be.

 

[Birddog6]

Hank: That sound par for the course on a "Hawg" rifle, as they were strictly a utility rifle & the bare esential. Usually plain as mud & used for the family slaughter be it it hogs or goats or cattle or whatever. Very few of them left as they were all used up or left in the barns for years & eventually discarded & considered useless as modern times came about. Someplace I have an old photo of my grandpareents out at the barn & they are butchering a hog & the ol rifle is leaning against the barn. (Aappears to be a 40 or 45 cal, not a large bore) They would shoot it & immediately hoist it & drain the blood & catch it in big crocks for later to make blood puddin' and them proceed to butcher the hog. After all was cut up & put away they would take the blood & liver & stuff the casings & cook up the blood liver puddin' & cut up pieces for chitlins & etc.

Most people today have no idea of how much work is involved in butchering a couple of hogs the old way, it was a all day affair for a half dozen people & then 2 or 3 days work gettin everything all wrapped & in the smoke house & etc. And all the kids helped & cleaned out the casings & shave the hide & etc. Quite an ordeal.... They made their own pickled pigs feet, pickled tung, pickled hearts, almost Nothing was wasted..... I can remember quite a bit of it but was quite small so allot of the details or sequence of each proceedure I can't remember.

 

[roundball]

Interesting post...to this day I still have a very vivid memory of being 6 or 7 years old on the farm in way upstate NY, in the winter time with snow on the ground, watching my grandfather & father butcher a hog...slit it's throat and the image of that event with the noise and the blood gushing everywhere on that white snow is still burned into my mind like it happened yesterday...not a hog rifle for them in 1950, wouldn't even waste a .22 cartidge...just a sharp butcher knife

 

[2172]

Here in western North Carolina, the hawg rifle was a farm implement well into this century...that's how you slaughtered your hawg in the Fall. Almost all of the rifles I've seen, or had described fit the very accurate post above.
There were some exceptions. I had one that was .38 caliber, 46" long bbl., it had once been a full stock, and it had hand cast brass furniture. The bbl was thick...don't have the measurements to hand now. It was a bear to lift.
The consensus of my gunclub members was that it was a "pieced together" out of at least 2 old guns, maybe 3 (we argued over that point). The old mountain folks threw nothing out...
good luck, Hank

 

[2172]

Roundball, Birddog will confirm this, I hope: here in the southern Appalachians, hogs weren't something you walked up to a throat-slit...from the 1700's on, hogs were turned loose in these (then)chestnut, beech and oak forests...they fattened up on mast. At an at-least annual, roundup, the shoats were marked by ear cuts denoting ownership. When hog killin' time came, you went out and shot your hog...there was, and still is, an etiquette is you shoot someone else's.
For example, I shot a boar a couple of years ago (using a Winchester 94 in .30-30 well, it weren't black powder, but John Wayne would have used one)...the first dog on the scene was not mine, so I grabbed him when he got to the carcass, let him chaw on it for a second, and made note of the owner's name. Then I gave half of the meat to that dog's owner. That's how it is done when the dog involved isn't yours, and is an outgrowth of what you did back in the open range days...NC changed its open range laws back in the 1960's. The ending of new pig blood coming into the gene pool has caused the hogs to become more and more boar-like. Hank

 

[roundball]

Interesting, didn't know that, better explains
the use of a "hog rifle"...
Those back on the farm were penned of course and the butcher knife was easier...plus, my grandparents lived through the depression and most folks who did were usually very frugal.
They could have shot the hogs right there in the pens but probably wouldn't think of wasting a cartridge when a butcher knife would do the job...and there was some probably some thinking back then to "let it bleed out"

 

[Birddog6]

Hank: Ear marking was a dangerous game. Best done with the piglets are real small & easier to handle, but unfortunately the sow is still around & she wants to have you for lunch for messin with her youngins. Tho I have never have done it myself, my grandpa told me of doing so & showed me the place he did it at & the ol tree overhanging the slight bluff, he would sit in & tie himself to so he would not be pig meat.. They would gather acorns & take all the table scraps & vegetable leavings & take to this same spot so the sow would come there every day & feast. (I asked why not corn & he said they couldn't afford it & kept all they grew) They would pen her & youngins in the lil area (rock & rail fence) then loop a thin rope over the piglets & pull them up & he used a hand punch that was real sharp & lay the ear on the limb & push the punch against it on the limb & cut 2 half circles side by side on the right ear of each piglet, which was their mark. My grandpa's brother used a triangle shaped punch & he also made 3 angled cuts side by side, left ear.
He also said he hated the job & it was a dang bloody hard mess & his daddy always sat there with the hog rifle just in case he got in trouble. If he fell into the mess with the sow & her youngins & the feed & all, plus scaring the bejessus out of the sow, she would immediately attack him & his daddy would unfortunately have to shoot her. (That is why you are tied to the tree when doin this)
He was sure happy when he moved to the town. Big town to, bout 12 families there & 2 general stores, a livery stable, grain mill, & a school & church..... man it was a bigtime place.......

 

[2172]

Birddog, one of the nice things about hog hunting is that no one ever confused them with Bambi..in fact, if "Bambi" had been a boar, not a deer,
Walt Disney would have probably shot it himself...
When you tell Liberals that you hunt, and they get that"what kind of skin do you wear in your cave look", if you add "hunt boar"...they'll get on to other topics...
What you said of your granddaddy's experience tallies with what the old timers I know say....Hank

 

[Birddog6]

I try not to talk to the liberals... It's like trying to convince an atheist he needs to wake up & go to church...... It's just not gonna happen til something really drastic happens that forces them that way.

 

[2172]

Birddog, sometimes that 'drastic thing' is, they buy a house...someone defined a conservative as a liberal who'd just bought a house...could be.
When I do talk to them, I try and remember my manners and never introduce facts...with Liberals, only "feelings' count...Hank

 

[roundball]

With the History Channel set to run a 3 night special about the Hatfields & McCoys on Memorial Day, I thought this thread from long ago about Hog Rifles in the Applachians was still interesting & timely...

 

[roundball]

Examples of Hog Rifles
http://tnhogrifle.com/Home.php

 

[GBG]

Nice rifle pics but I didn't see any hogs.

 

[Okwaho]

Need opinions/ history. Im gonna build a Tennesee "hog" rifle. Got the 42" full length walnut stock inletted for a 1" channel. I know they typically used iron furniture & thats OK. I was going to put in a L&R Maston Flint lock (is that OK?). & punch the caliber to 58 (like to go 62, but dont want to order a special). (would 50 cal. be more typical?) I can find little history on a "Hog" rifle, are they the same as a Tennesee Rifle?

In advance I thank all who respond.

Docwilly

The term "hog rifle" is one that is often applied by collectors and owners of Tennessee rifles particularly those made in East Tennessee. The term was not limited to crude rifles. The term "poor boy" is modern and probably came into use in the 60's and has spawned a whole mish mash of guns.
I formerly collected Tennessee rifles primarilly those made in East Tennessee and western North Carolina.I don't really know when the term "hog rifles" came into use but suspect that it came into usage in the 20th century or possibly the late 19th century.I have looked at hundreds of these rifles and cannot recall ever seeing one with a Germanic lock although the usage of such locks such as the Silers seems to be favored by many modern builders and makers of pre carved stocks who have not done their homework or simply don't care. Most of the guns that I looked at and checked calibers seem to be about .48 or less. By the time the vast majority of these guns were made game was primarily deer and squirrels with an occasional black bear.I also agree that barrels tended to be straight long and muzzle heavy.I once had an early {1790-1810}rifle in .48 caliber with a slight flare in the barrel about 8" back from the muzzle. This gun was really a Virginia rifle made in East Tennessee. Remember that these Tennessee rifles continued to be MADE and USED on into the 20th century particularly in the Soddy area of Southeastern Tennessee.
As always I welcome responsible opposing comment
Tom Patton :v :bow:

 

[Packdog]

Docwilly,
IMHO: The term Hog rifle, Bear rifle, and Squirrel rifle are all stereotyped names more to describe the primary use of the gun.

I think under .50 cal is the more common cal. when refering to the rifle as a Hog Rifle. Something between .45 and .50 seems to be the most common as Tom pointed out. The larger calibers seem to show up a little farther up the mountain range. They also get called Bear rifles then but they overall look is very similar.
I'm partial to Chamber's Late Ketland lock if you round the tail off. R.R.Davis also makes a good squaretail English lock that would be fine. L&R's Manton is correct if you feel good about using an L&R lock.
Cheers,
Ken

 

[54ball]

To add a some aspect of mountain culture to the discussion......

My Great Grandmother was raised on a farm near Bridgeport AL. She refused eat deer and was very angry at my father when she ate some accidentally.

The way she was raised, deer were vermin. Only poor whitetrash ate deer. No self respecting farmer who farmed hogs would eat a deer.

Quite frankly, mountain folk from this region and era might have been ashamed to refer to a rifle as a deer rifle.

Deer were about wiped out in the early 1800s. If you hunted in the South, you hunted rabbit, squirrel, coon, occasionally a possum, occasionally a fox, quail and dove. By far the gun of choice....the shot gun.

You could find a few deer in the mountains and a few in the swamps. It was not until the game management programs of the 1950s and 60s did the whitetailed deer make a come back, at least in Alabama.

It only been in the last 40 years or so that deer has surpassed small game in my region as the game animal of choice.

 

[Bob E]

While we are reminiscing family lore I have a tale from my ex-inlaws who live deep in West Va. coal country. I used to visit these folks in the 1970-80s. They had in thier family a muzzleloading rifle that they used in meat shoots. This rifle was stocked in plain maple with grease hole, brass mounted, set triggers,and what appeared to be a converted to percussion flintlock with a drum and nipple. The most amazing feature to me was the barrell. It was 1 in. across the flats, 49 inches long and 50 cal.. I couldnt hold it offhand long enough to aquire a target.
I swear that I am not making this up but one of the family members met a tragic end with this gun when he was attempting to reload or clean the gun at some sort of meat-target shoot. He actually blew into the muzzle to soften the fouling. while the muzzle was in his mouth he attempted to get air thru the nipple by half-cocking with his foot. The gun had been reloaded, the foot slipped and now the gun sits idle, probably forever in a closet.
Bob E

 

[smoothy]

Sorry about your family's loss.
I will have to admit that I built what I thought was a fairly accurate southern mountain rifle that was finished in 1989. There wasn't much to go on at my disposal for research at the time. And I was limited to being left handed along with few corresponding components to choose from. I got a full stock Hawken stock fom PLR Supply Company with enough wood to slim down. The barrel channel was 1" across the flats so I chose 54 caliber (had a TC Renegade in the same caliber). The barrel is 42" long. The butt has a slight Roman nose. Used the quality, but possibly inappropriate, Siler left handed lock. Aside from the lock, most of the features of this rifle has been seen in pictures from the links (and links in the links)on original rifles. But not all on one gun. The lop is 14-1/4", which I was surprised to see at least one specimen with this same length. Heavy.......yes. Solid hold........yes. Hold for a long time.........no. Harvested deer with it.........yes. Self serving reply.........yes. But I'm happy to see this thread with all the information of which most I've never seen before. And to see some features on other rifles that legitamize my build, although many may not agree. It is not an exact copy or along the lines of any finite school. But the experience I've gained from it cannot be too far from the mark of historical. And I thank those that have provided this information/links.