Holland and Holland Identification

[Gordoncourtney]

Sorry photos are not attaching maybe later

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Made it

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Made it

Plus. 3 Bess 1812-1820. Replacement wood

 

[cositrike]

You do blab on Rudyard but it’s a free country just stick to the topic or it shows how little you actually know. I still don’t believe the story of the little old lady. Let the people decide. This repro is just not the work of H&H but Disneyland maybe !!!!!!

We’ll whom am I you might ask. Well I am descended from Courtenay 1140 SE of France now a fit 78 year old. I live in a modest £1.6m house 15 miles outside London , 20 mins on the train? in a little country village I have hunted and lived in Africa and Oz WA plus the uk. Got a few guns on the wall rest in the strong room got 2 Bess we’ll kind of , new wood stocks

As you can see I have a Holts card and I advise and bid on guns for overseas customers sorry I covered up my details

O shoot BSA Scorpio pcp air guns at 70yards on my garden range to keep my hand in , over morning coffee Got woodland across the road full of deer you cannot shoot.

Spend much time in our old 2001 Rapido charging around France. Ferry just reopened topic hunt the hog. Ha ha My 50 ft ocean class catamaran has been neglected as I am in the middle of chemo to give me another 20 odd years. If I was 90 I would not have bothered

So there we are. I don’t know why I bother with this string yes full of a couple of aseholes but other than that I have met so many lovely people on this forum from across the pond and elsewhere in the world. Is a lovely magic forum, I thank you all

What a boastful post. Made me laugh a bit actually. For all of the stuff you’ve got, one is a Holts card. All you have to do, is ask for one! I’m sorry, but I’d back Rudyard knowledge against yours, any time. He knows his stuff and that’s not just from me knowing the man, but also his expertise being vouched for, by DeWitt Bailey

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Yes agree with you far too boastful. But thats who I am , I almost did not post it. Ha ha. This is one crappy string in many brill ones Pity you knew about the Holts card lost that hand of cards It’s fine we all have knowledge but no need to be snotty , Rudyard was getting up my nose, plenty know more than him. It’s irreverent and there’s not that much to know about the Brown Bess if we all put our bit in the members can draw their own conclusions On all that note we still have not found out who actually made theses naff Bess guns or where they came from And j don’t believe the old lady story Ha ha. I really don’t know why I bother but I have met some wonderful friends on this forum and we email regularly. I wish you well

 

[appalichian hunter]

Seems like a bit of internal strife among our British brethren there. At the bell go to yer respective corners, take a break, come back shake hands and get over it. The dead horse is not going to get up no matter how much ya beat it.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Can we be done now?

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Very well said. Totally agree , yes from London, I wish you both well. Ha ha ha

 

[lexington1]

It's sort of like driving by a serious car crash. You don't really want to see it, but you can't look away either.

 

[DuncNZ]

Plus. 3 Bess 1812-1820. Replacement wood

Tnlonghunter , sorry I could not help myself :
I can see 2 guns which you claim are re stocked Brown Bess guns . The locks dont look like Bess locks , they are terribly badly made with no markings or lines , one appears to have an octagonal barrel , one has priming powder in the pan ,the trigger guard is all wrong . they are in shamefully derelict rusty condition ,The stocks look like they were made by someone who had no idea what a Bess stock should look like . What do your boat , camper van, air rifle and house have to do with muzzle loading ? I thought you British had to lock your firearms up .
I suggest you buy a book called 'Pattern Dates for British Ordnance Small Arms 1718-1783 By De Witt Bailey . Track of the Wolf have it for $17.95 , It has lots of nice pictures of locks and complete guns .
I'm on Rudyard's side with this .

 

[Gordoncourtney]

They are the stronger locks after 1812 just been chucked in the corner unloved , you are probably right not correct barrel etc historically
Whatever your thoughts your choice just be happy I thought the string was finished and the horse above was dead I guess you are across the pond. I wish you well the other stuf just who I am , apologies for even putting them in, I was a little pissed off at the time, not acting like a gentleman

 

[DuncNZ]

, Mate I'm a Kiwi , Bird not fruit

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Bloody hell I would not have known , Are you at home NZ or in USA Got as far as WA. My cousins late wife’s brother I gather was head of game hunting in NZ big problems getting people to cull deer. They are well off , holidaying your winters on their catamaran in Corfu I think my Haggis brought better chat relations than these H&H Bess repros

be happy I wish you well from London
“BIRD”. Indicates you are of the fairer ***. Or did you not chose your words wisely. Ha ha.
It’s a cold , blue sky sunny day thanks to the Gulf Stream

 

[Rudyard]

' Not acting like a gentleman 'Well that s one thing we agree on .You could rent the Albert Hall but dosn't mean you can sing .You cant buy integrity.
I do agree the Haggis nonesence was better than your rant against the now admitted H& H replicas.. If your in a hole might be wise to stop digging .Ha Ha your self .
Rudyard

 

[2 shots]

one large popcorn please.

 

[Robby]

This thing got more legs than the Hollands and their kin!
Robby

 

[DuncNZ]

Bloody hell I would not have known , Are you at home NZ or in USA Got as far as WA. My cousins late wife’s brother I gather was head of game hunting in NZ big problems getting people to cull deer. They are well off , holidaying your winters on their catamaran in Corfu I think my Haggis brought better chat relations than these H&H Bess repros

be happy I wish you well from London
“BIRD”. Indicates you are of the fairer ***. Or did you not chose your words wisely. Ha ha.
It’s a cold , blue sky sunny day thanks to the Gulf Stream

This is my last on this subject . A kiwi is a Bird nor a fruit , I am not a bird , I live in NZ, 5th generation ,we call ourselves Kiwi's . There is no such person as the head of game hunting in NZ , never was never will be . No problem getting people to shoot deer , no season no limits on numbers or *** or age or species . You continuously get the wrong end of the stick and write without thinking .

 

[Gordoncourtney]

No the apology was not for you Rudyard but to the charming other members. I have never been stuck in a hole especial in WA where you get a long drop This string is just poor entertainment not worth the time to read i dont give a toss neither does my cat !!!!!!

I was emailed just now by a friend , so for those who do not know

“A lot of recent gun books are just rewrites of existing information but Bailey was one of the early researchers so he came up with original stuff from military and manufacturers archives. By now he's probably dead, along with the other writers of that generation.

Walter Winfer, in Oz, wrote an excellent series on British Single Shot Sporting Rifles. They are also full of high quality photographs printed on high quality paper; and are priced accordingly. “

I looked some up and they go from $8 second hand.

One of the best , but outside this string? is the British double rifle book by Greame Wright so difficult to get hold of. I got the last new one from USA £75 plus postage

I’ll try and conclude nicely.

“Brethren of this mystic tide, the horse is dead and gone, our work is done , our work is all. These words must be the last “

“HAPPY TO MEET, SORRY TO PART BUT HAPPY TO MEET AGAIN

 

[cositrike]

No the apology was not for you Rudyard but to the charming other members. I have never been stuck in a hole especial in WA where you get a long drop This string is just poor entertainment not worth the time to read i dont give a toss neither does my cat !!!!!!

I was emailed just now by a friend , so for those who do not know

“A lot of recent gun books are just rewrites of existing information but Bailey was one of the early researchers so he came up with original stuff from military and manufacturers archives. By now he's probably dead, along with the other writers of that generation.

Walter Winfer, in Oz, wrote an excellent series on British Single Shot Sporting Rifles. They are also full of high quality photographs printed on high quality paper; and are priced accordingly. “

I looked some up and they go from $8 second hand.

One of the best , but outside this string? is the British double rifle book by Greame Wright so difficult to get hold of. I got the last new one from USA £75 plus postage

I’ll try and conclude nicely.

“Brethren of this mystic tide, the horse is dead and gone, our work is done , our work is all. These words must be the last “

“HAPPY TO MEET, SORRY TO PART BUT HAPPY TO MEET AGAIN

De Witt Bailey is not dead. He is not a well man, but definitely alive. I’ve camped and shot with him for many years.

 

[Rudyard]

Mr Winfer & Bailey are personal friends from years back . I rang De Wiitt recently still sharp as a tack. I have supplied & helped both Authors as I have any writters who sought to write such works so usefull to us all.
Even for people like Mr Courtney who knows it all anyway.
Rudyard