I've been searching the net for holsters for my two 1851 Navy revolvers. I'm finding the straight and crossdraw holsters. I know CAS doesn't allow it at shoots, but which would be the best holster if I wanted to carry the pistols butt forward and use a twist draw: do I wear straight holsters on the "wrong" side or do I wear two crossdraws? From what I can tell, the crossdraws push the butts forward. I have zero experience in this area. Thanks for your help.
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
holster question
- Thread starter paleryder
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
The crossdraw holsters do tip the butts down. If you want an open style holster I would think to just buy the normal ones and wear 'em on the wrong sides. If you're after the Cavalry style holsters check here; http://www.cowboyneeds.com/009.html They have them listed in both right and left hand Black U.S. or walnut brown C.S.
Or search "Cavalry holster" and see what's out there.
Just out of curiosity, why would you want to use a "twist draw" on both sides? Seems rather awkward to me. :idunno:
Or search "Cavalry holster" and see what's out there.
Just out of curiosity, why would you want to use a "twist draw" on both sides? Seems rather awkward to me. :idunno:
Last edited by a moderator:
junkman_01
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 209
- Reaction score
- 2
....but it sure looks cool! :thumbsup:
Well, it's like this...my modern firearm friends think I'm odd to be shooting BP anyway. My thinking is that, sure, I'll probably get teh wack put on me first during the zombie apocalypse but I'll look heck of a lot cooler than they will. The twist draw...icing on the cake.
Seriously though, I think there is some argument that it is as natural, if not more, than a "standard" draw. Put your arms out in front of you a ways with your elbows bent. Let your wrists hang loose. If you lower your arms, you're in a rather natural position for a twist draw. If you try a standard draw, you must cock your wrists and hyper extend them. This tension might...MIGHT...slow you down. Aren't fast draw holsters modified to put the gun at a different angle for quickly, more relaxed draw. My Wing Chun experience teaches me to loook for a more relaxed way of doing things.
Additionally, butts forward allow you to do same-side twist draw or crossdraw. Strong side with butts to the rear only allow for same side draw. So, butts forward is more versatile.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Seriously though, I think there is some argument that it is as natural, if not more, than a "standard" draw. Put your arms out in front of you a ways with your elbows bent. Let your wrists hang loose. If you lower your arms, you're in a rather natural position for a twist draw. If you try a standard draw, you must cock your wrists and hyper extend them. This tension might...MIGHT...slow you down. Aren't fast draw holsters modified to put the gun at a different angle for quickly, more relaxed draw. My Wing Chun experience teaches me to loook for a more relaxed way of doing things.
Additionally, butts forward allow you to do same-side twist draw or crossdraw. Strong side with butts to the rear only allow for same side draw. So, butts forward is more versatile.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Different strokes I guess. :idunno:
I've heard the reason for the butt-forward Cavalry holster was to allow an off-side crossdraw when the sabre was already in the right hand. OK, I can understand that I suppose. Even that seems counter-intuitive to me though. If I were going to charge into battle on a horse I think I would start by firing my rifle at a distance, switch to the revolver when I got closer and the rifle was empty, and go to the sabre after I had closed. Then again, I have never charged into a battle on horseback... and don't plan to.
With revolvers on both sides already I don't know why you'd need to crossdraw either one even if you did have a sabre in your hand.
I tried your arms out exercise and my wrists aren't anywhere near the right angle for a twist-draw. In fact I find that I would have to flip my elbows out to the sides to do it comfortably. Seems to me there's a lot of wasted motion of the whole arm and the revolver too.
I have never tried a Cavalry style holster. I have regular style high carry holsters, a low-slung gunslinger holster/drop-belt, and a slimjim crossdraw. My personal favorite is the crossdraw.
Fast draw has never been my thing tho. I'm more of the draw, aim, shoot kinda guy. I have seen some of the modified quick-draw-speed-racer holsters. The ones I have seen have the butt to the rear and actually tipped to the rear with the whole front of the holster open. Those guys just kinda tip the gun back and fire from the hip and DANG they are fast! :shocked2: If one of those guys ever called me out at high noon I'd hightail it out the back door. :haha:
Zombies are generally kinda slow tho... :wink:
Another thing that comes to mind is this; If you were fast-twist-drawing a pair of revolvers and your thumb slipped, where would the muzzle be pointing? At a lot more of you than your leg. I've heard of plenty of quick-draw fellers shootin' themself in the leg. Probably why the CAS guys don't allow it?
Carry your guns however you want and stay safe while you do it. Even if I can't make any sense of it.
I've heard the reason for the butt-forward Cavalry holster was to allow an off-side crossdraw when the sabre was already in the right hand. OK, I can understand that I suppose. Even that seems counter-intuitive to me though. If I were going to charge into battle on a horse I think I would start by firing my rifle at a distance, switch to the revolver when I got closer and the rifle was empty, and go to the sabre after I had closed. Then again, I have never charged into a battle on horseback... and don't plan to.
With revolvers on both sides already I don't know why you'd need to crossdraw either one even if you did have a sabre in your hand.
I tried your arms out exercise and my wrists aren't anywhere near the right angle for a twist-draw. In fact I find that I would have to flip my elbows out to the sides to do it comfortably. Seems to me there's a lot of wasted motion of the whole arm and the revolver too.
I have never tried a Cavalry style holster. I have regular style high carry holsters, a low-slung gunslinger holster/drop-belt, and a slimjim crossdraw. My personal favorite is the crossdraw.
Fast draw has never been my thing tho. I'm more of the draw, aim, shoot kinda guy. I have seen some of the modified quick-draw-speed-racer holsters. The ones I have seen have the butt to the rear and actually tipped to the rear with the whole front of the holster open. Those guys just kinda tip the gun back and fire from the hip and DANG they are fast! :shocked2: If one of those guys ever called me out at high noon I'd hightail it out the back door. :haha:
Zombies are generally kinda slow tho... :wink:
Another thing that comes to mind is this; If you were fast-twist-drawing a pair of revolvers and your thumb slipped, where would the muzzle be pointing? At a lot more of you than your leg. I've heard of plenty of quick-draw fellers shootin' themself in the leg. Probably why the CAS guys don't allow it?
Carry your guns however you want and stay safe while you do it. Even if I can't make any sense of it.
Jethro,
Perhaps I didn't describe the arm movement correctly. I can't say it's necessarily better but it isn't unnatural. As I sit at the computer, I leaned back in my chair with my elbows on the arm rests. My hands dangle palms to the rear just ready to grab a butt-forward pistol.
If it's not for you, then you must do what is best for you. Can't say I'm sold on it myself but it is intriguing and something I want to explore. It was done by some (many?) for a reason. We're all different. I'm a little flexible and, yes, your elbows might need to go out a little, but they also go out if you do a conventional draw. With a conventional draw, your shoulder does something different as well. Drawing two guns at once in a conventional manner causes both shoulders to rise and rotate forward and could, depending on your anatomy and the length of your draw, bind a little at the neck where the twist draw doens't do this. This would be more noticeable with pistols worn high in the belt/holster or if your gun has a really long barrel. The twist draw may seem different to us perhaps because we're not used to seeing it and not used to drawing our pistols while in a variety of positions while doing different task. Most guns we're familiar with have barrels much shorter than your 1851/1860 Colts or the 1858 Remington and our holsters are designed differently. Hickock did it for a reason and I doubt it was because it made him look cool...although it probably did. :wink:
May it be blessed.
Perhaps I didn't describe the arm movement correctly. I can't say it's necessarily better but it isn't unnatural. As I sit at the computer, I leaned back in my chair with my elbows on the arm rests. My hands dangle palms to the rear just ready to grab a butt-forward pistol.
If it's not for you, then you must do what is best for you. Can't say I'm sold on it myself but it is intriguing and something I want to explore. It was done by some (many?) for a reason. We're all different. I'm a little flexible and, yes, your elbows might need to go out a little, but they also go out if you do a conventional draw. With a conventional draw, your shoulder does something different as well. Drawing two guns at once in a conventional manner causes both shoulders to rise and rotate forward and could, depending on your anatomy and the length of your draw, bind a little at the neck where the twist draw doens't do this. This would be more noticeable with pistols worn high in the belt/holster or if your gun has a really long barrel. The twist draw may seem different to us perhaps because we're not used to seeing it and not used to drawing our pistols while in a variety of positions while doing different task. Most guns we're familiar with have barrels much shorter than your 1851/1860 Colts or the 1858 Remington and our holsters are designed differently. Hickock did it for a reason and I doubt it was because it made him look cool...although it probably did. :wink:
May it be blessed.
Actually you don't flip your wrist. The pistol is drawn straight up till clear of the holster and then rotated, clockwise for the right hand,ccw for the left, with the muzzle still pointing straight down. At this point the gun is swung foreward and up into the firing position as in a normal draw. It never sweeps across your body. Durring this or any other style of draw the thumb should never be on the hammer till the gun begins its transition to the horizontal position.
It works best to have holsters that hang vertical, no cant foreward or back. The plain slim jim is best suited for this. When I was a kid in the 50s the Maine State Police wore a vertical RH holster of the left. The explination that I got from them was that in that position it could be drawn with either hand and drawn with the left upsidedown firing with the little finger if needed. Of course it was a revolver which usually worked every time and didn't need 2 hands to clear a misfire.
It works best to have holsters that hang vertical, no cant foreward or back. The plain slim jim is best suited for this. When I was a kid in the 50s the Maine State Police wore a vertical RH holster of the left. The explination that I got from them was that in that position it could be drawn with either hand and drawn with the left upsidedown firing with the little finger if needed. Of course it was a revolver which usually worked every time and didn't need 2 hands to clear a misfire.
paleryder,
Another place you might want to check for holsters is our own MLF member Swampy. He makes some darn nice leather stuff and has been posting ads for 51 Navy holsters in the classifieds. Maybe he could make whatever style you're looking for.
Another place you might want to check for holsters is our own MLF member Swampy. He makes some darn nice leather stuff and has been posting ads for 51 Navy holsters in the classifieds. Maybe he could make whatever style you're looking for.
I see what you mean, i think, i couldn't do that any faster than a regular draw. Don't know how those quick draw people lean back and draw that fast without falling over.
Thanks for explaining the safe, correct way to do that type of draw.
steve
Thanks for explaining the safe, correct way to do that type of draw.
steve
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2009
- Messages
- 696
- Reaction score
- 0
Jethro, make sure you don't superimpose modern tactics onto 19th Century battle drills, hehe!Jethro224 said:
The primary weapon of the cavalryman was the saber, which was always wielded with the right hand, no exceptions. Pistols, therefore, were wielded with the left, resulting in a cross-draw position when worn on the right side of the belt.
If you were regular Army, on horseback, and had a rifle, you were a Dragoon (mounted infantry) not the Cavalry. These mounted types played very different roles on the battlefield, and the "Cavalry" riding with carbines etc. in the ACW was pretty much an amateur accident, not an innovation as many American historians self-servingly assert. Despite the carriage of long arms, this Cavalry/Dragoon mish-mash still generally played the role exclusively of the Cavalry, being scouting/intel, and light raiders.
Just goes to show what I know about Cavalry. Nothin'! :haha:
Honestly, that period of history has never been my area of interest and I have not done much(any :wink: ) studying up on it.
They all had carbines in the movies. :surrender:
Honestly, that period of history has never been my area of interest and I have not done much(any :wink: ) studying up on it.
They all had carbines in the movies. :surrender:
Poor Private
58 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,073
- Reaction score
- 20
Watch those old westerns real close. Most didn't even carry cap and ball long guns. If you watch alot of westerns or old movies that is supposed to be about the civil war they generally carried trap doors, and "six shooters". Take a look at Audie Murphys' "Red Badge of Courage" for example. Movies are more about entertainment than about period correct weapons clothing, and stuff.
And it isn't just cowboy movies. Gary Cooper carried both the wrong rifle and the wrong pistol in Sgt. York. While we can probably excuse the movie makers for having Mr. Cooper carry a 1903 Springfield, for his pistol they gave him a German Luger! IIRC, Sgt. York carried an M1917 rifle and would have had a 1911 .45. Hollywood! I think they did get it mostly right in The Outlaw Josey Wales.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2009
- Messages
- 696
- Reaction score
- 0
Hope you don't think I was pokin' at you!! With the wife and all my girls around all the time, I get really excited when I get a chance to be right! :wink:
Cabelas has the Triple K Hickock holsters for $21.99. I have one for my Navy. It hangs straight down, but because I keep it on the same belt all the time I am thinking of stitching it in place on the belt with a slight forward rake.
I am going to go with staight holsters. I've contacted Swampy about the matter.
Let us know how you like them sown in. I'll have to play around a while before I decide how I'm going to carry them. Right now I have a cheap Civil War reenactor belt but I hope to get a better one.
Let us know how you like them sown in. I'll have to play around a while before I decide how I'm going to carry them. Right now I have a cheap Civil War reenactor belt but I hope to get a better one.
Similar threads
- Locked
