Hopkins & Allen BP Rifle

[rmartin77_99]

I recently acquired a Hopkins & Allen replica BP .45 cal Rifle from the 1960s or 1970s. I am very new to BP. In fact I have never shot one before.I would like to know how much powder to use on a normal load and if this gun can shoot other bullets beside the round lead ball. Also if anyone has any suggestions for me about how to get started shooting BP I would appreciate it.

 

[rafterob]

To start with you will need round balls .440, #11 caps, patching material or pre-cut and/or pre-lubed patches, Cleaning patches, real black powder is preferred fffg granulation,an adjustable powder measure,loading and cleaning jags for your ramrod, also a bronze bore brush. Most here will recommend you get a "range rod" to save wear on the rifle ramrod (which is best saved for the field). The starting load is usually accepted as 1 grain per caliber size, so for you that means 45 grains. To load and fire;Starting with a clean rifle, run a dry cleaning patch down the bore to remove any excess oils. Place a cap on the nipple, cock the hammer and fire, repeat(this is done on the firing line, not at the loading area). This will clear any oil and debris from the nipple and fire channel. Set the hammer at half-cock. With the rifle butt firmly on the ground and muzzle pointing up, measure your powder charge into the powder measure and then pour it down the barrel. Tap butt on ground a few times to settle the powder. Center a pre-lubed patch on the muzzle and place a ball (sprue up if the ball is cast) on the patch and push it into the barrel. You may need to use a tool called a short starter for this. Once the patch and ball combo are started down the barrel you can use the ramrod to seat the ball down on top of the powder charge. Grip the ramrod about 6" from the barrel and use short strokes to push the ball down, avoid "hammering" it down. Now with the gun pointed safely down range place a new cap on the nipple (only done on the firing line). Raise the rifle to shooting position, take bead on your target, cock the hammer to full cock and fire when ready. That is the basics. I suggest using the search feature on the forum and search the topics you have questions on and you will find more info and opinions. Everybody has one.....

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have just such a rifle. I built it from a kit in the early seventies for a coworker. He never paid for it and brought it to me for a minor repair a year latter. I fixed it and told him he could have it back when he was ready to pay for it!. I assume yours is a 45 caliber with the two piece stock.The rifling is shallow and 1/48 twist. Your lock is probly rough and would benefit from having the sear and tumbler polished and rehardened. ( the origionals are very soft and wear easily ). Mine has accounted for aproximately twenty deer using both patched round ball. 440 ball, ten thousands patch, over 55 grain FFFg. Or a hollow based mini over 65 grain FFFG. They were a rough but solid gun and make an ideal deer rifle for brush and shots up to 75 yards with porb or 125 yards with the mini. :hmm: :hmm:

 

[Dave K]

I friend of mine has one, as a matter of fact he ended up kind of collecting the various H&A belly slappers.He remember him starting this quest back in the late 70's when he bought his used. His 45 cal took a .433 ball. You may get by maybe using a .440 ball in his, but it made for either one tough to load gun or one very thin patch. I haven't seen him shoot any of them in years, but at the time I was very impressed with it's accuracy.

 

[BEP]

A lot of the H&A frontstuffers of that era were nominally .45 caliber but were in reality .44! I have a Minuteman Kentucky-style rifle that is one of their .44 calibers, although sold as a .45. Accurate rifle, though. Best to measure the bore. Have fun!

 

[napolean]

"Tap butt on ground a few times to settle the powder."

I advise to NEVER do this with any gun. Rather,
pick the rifle up and slap a few times opposite the lock. Even a light tap on the ground is harder on the tang area and wrist of the stock than any recoil against your shoulder.
Jon D

 

[rmartin77_99]

Thank you for such a detailed answer. I intended to learn as much as possible about Muzzle Loading as I can and your post was very informative.

 

[msuspartan]

Another suggestion, look at the NMLRA site and find a local club and get involved. They will help you in so many ways. Sometimes people telling you what to do can be confusing (no offense to the excellent advice given here :bow: ) and if you run into a problem, there is someone there to help out. They will also have local places to get supplies from.

Also, WELCOME to the Forum!!

Enjoy your new hobby.

Cheers, DonK

 

[MikeChapin]

Ghettogun covered most of what you need to do. Another fellow mentioned that many of those H&A .45s which is very true. You can find .45s rather easily but getting .44 balls can be a little more difficult. Track of the Wolf has them or you could get a mold at a later date.

In any case you should probably pick up some .433s just in case. Try them both. You don't want your shooting session brought to a stop because you can't get a ball down the barrel. If it is a true .45, you can use up the .433 balls in the .45 with a thicker patch.

I have an old H&A kit that was built by my son back in the eighties. It is a .36 but has a very tight bore and will only take a maximum .010 patch without hammering it down the barrel.

 

[rmartin77_99]

I live very close to a very large outdoor store and they have .440 & .433 balls, Cabots and every kind of flask, measure, Black Powder,ram rods, patches and cleaning devices you can imagine. I would like to tell everyone who has responded to my questions that I really appreciate their help.

 

[hanshi]

About 45 years ago I bought an H&A underhammer and later, a flint Minuteman; both were .45. They worked fine with .440 ball - though .433 was recommended - and a thinner patch. Accuracy with both was spectacular. Using a .015 patch made for a snug load but as long as the patch was well lubed (spit patch or Hoppes) it still went down; those were very good barrels. I even used some .445 ball with a t-shirt patch which did fine. In a moment of weakness I let the Minuteman go in an ill advised trade. I still kick myself. They both really smoked with 60 to 65 grns 3f.

 

[arw22lr]

Your local library may have books on shooting muzzle-loading firearms. Two authors I recall, who wrote on the basics, and during the era of your H&A rifle, are Geo. Nonte & Sam Fadala. Inter-library loans could be helpful for this, too.

 

[rmartin77_99]

I purchased the .440 round balls and .010 patches and tried to load the gun for the first time today. The ball with the patch was too large to go in the barrel. The ball went into the barrel just fine without the patch. In fact it went all the way to the bottom or whatever you would call the trigger end of the barrel. I had to use the original rod to remove the ball with the ball remover screw. Wonder if this thing shoots a smaller ball or if the patch was the wrong size?

 

[Zonie]

Did you use a "short starter" to try to get the ball into the muzzle? The patched ball is larger than the bore so it won't start with just thumb pressure.

Perhaps you already know this but for those who are new to shooting these guns, most short starters look like a 2 1/2" diameter wooden ball with two 3/8 diameter dowels sticking out of it.

To load the gun, after pouring the powder down the bore the lubricated patch is placed on the muzzle so that it is kinda centered. The ball is centered in the bore and held there while the short dowel of the short starter is placed on top of it.

A "whack" of the hand will drive the patched ball into the bore a short distance.
The longer dowel is then placed on the ball and another easier whack is made to the ball.

After removeing the short starter ramming the ball down to the powder is usually very easy taking about 2-4 pounds of force.

When ramming the patched ball, do it in stages.
Do NOT try to grab the ramrod why up high and force it down. This will break the ramrod and the jagged end of the broken rod can cause severe damage.
Instead, grab the ramrod about 8-12 inches above the muzzle and push it down. Then repeat this until the ball is seated tightly on the powder.

Have fun.

 

[ohio ramrod]

My memory isn't as good as it should be but I think some of the early H&A barrels were under sized and prefered a 435 ball. :surrender: :surrender:

 

[rmartin77_99]

I tried a different brand patch. The ones I started with miked out at .022 instead of .010. The new patches I purchased were correct and fit properly so the problem is solved.The gun shoots nicely with 45 grains of fff BP.It will take me a few trips to the range to dial it in but it is so much more fun than a modern rifle. Thanks everyone for all the great help.

 

[blond bomber]

I have the Minuteman and a swivel breech, both by Numrich, both in .45. A .445 ball and .015 patch seem to work fine. What powder charge is working best for others?