Hopkins and Allen .45 underhammer

[sawyer04]

Have a local that builds these rifles. They are far too pretty to drag to the bush. Being as simple in parts and being a very accurate weapon they just never caught on. Is that because they was a target designated rifle? I wonder.

 

[sheriff john]

From experience ....if it's one with the taper pin, be certain you push it out and in correctly ...the wrong way will not make you happy. My earlier one had the tapered pin. Loaned it to a relative who decided to clean it before returning it to me...oh well.

 

[toot]

there is a GENERE FOLLING on these.!

 

[Mark Herman]

I have had, and still have, a bunch of these underhammers and do a couple of things right away. I make sure they are set up for 1/X28 nipples which are far more available and use the long thread nipples that match the barrel wall thickness. Standard nipples leave a pocket that catches a lot of fouling that can cause at least hag fires if not misfires. On guns with a tapered barrel pin I drill the tapered hole straight through and use a roll pin. It is tighter and will not work loose through continued recoil. Mine have all had barrels replaced for use as target rifles or trap guns. They make a solid functional base for whatever your use will be.

 

[2 shots]

check out pecatonica rifle supply for plug.

 

[renegadehunter]

I have one in .45, but haven't shot it yet, mine has the longer barrel.
I have in my notes that it was recommended to use a .433 RB with it, something I read on here at some point. Their bores tend to be a bit tighter than actual .45 caliber.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I can't help you with the powder charge, but I think those bbl.s were set up for a .443" RB. Btw, they were once quite common around here as Numrich Arms was/is not far from my home and was well known as a parts/gun shop years ago.

I have a .45 caliber Numrich H&A Heritage Model. I've always shot it with .440 balls and a pillow ticking patch. My father bought it in 1970 and gave it to me in 1981. 40 grains of 3Fg makes a nice target load. If I was going to take it after deer I'd bump the powder charge to 65 grains of 3Fg or 70 grains of 2Fg.

If you use tightly fitting caps they won't fall off.

It's fitted with a rear peep sight and a front globe sight.

 

[Southern_Saint]

I have had, and still have, a bunch of these underhammers and do a couple of things right away. I make sure they are set up for 1/X28 nipples which are far more available and use the long thread nipples that match the barrel wall thickness. Standard nipples leave a pocket that catches a lot of fouling that can cause at least hag fires if not misfires. On guns with a tapered barrel pin I drill the tapered hole straight through and use a roll pin. It is tighter and will not work loose through continued recoil. Mine have all had barrels replaced for use as target rifles or trap guns. They make a solid functional base for whatever your use will be.

@Mark Herman
What type of roll pin are you referring to? I am retrofitting a Knight mk85 barrel for my HA action

 

[M. De Land]

I have had, and still have, a bunch of these underhammers and do a couple of things right away. I make sure they are set up for 1/X28 nipples which are far more available and use the long thread nipples that match the barrel wall thickness. Standard nipples leave a pocket that catches a lot of fouling that can cause at least hag fires if not misfires. On guns with a tapered barrel pin I drill the tapered hole straight through and use a roll pin. It is tighter and will not work loose through continued recoil. Mine have all had barrels replaced for use as target rifles or trap guns. They make a solid functional base for whatever your use will be.

My gun started as a 20 inch barreled Buggy rifle in 1970 or so.
I re-barreled (Green Mtn. the only barrels I use) mine and machined a new breech plug that is double end threaded into both the action and barrel with two 1/4 inch set screws threaded into the receiver holes to lock it in place. The combination of the threads into the receiver front and lock screws make for a very solid (no flex) barrel/action link up.
I also developed a flash guard that allows sleeveless off hand fire and a steel pistol grip strap.
The trigger was extended to the back of the bow/main spring for better offhand fire positioning.
I also use the extended nipple to traverse the full barrel wall thickness.
It is my go two match rifle in .45 cal.
I busted the butt stock through the grip and had to make a new one and didn't spend much time trying to match the color. Oddly the other side of the butt stock is darker than the forearm color but it was the only walnut available at the time close to the same shape.

 

[Southern_Saint]

I re-barreled (Green Mtn. the only barrels I use) mine and machined a new breech plug that is double end threaded into both the action and barrel with two 1/4 inch set screws threaded into the receiver holes to lock it in place.
I also developed a flash guard that allows sleeveless off hand fire and a steel pistol grip strap.
The trigger was extended to the back of the bow/main spring for better offhand fire positioning.
I also use the extended nipple to traverse the full barrel wall thickness.
It is my go two match rifle in .45 cal

Thank you for the info, I really appreciate it!

 

[M. De Land]

I have a .45 caliber Numrich H&A Heritage Model. I've always shot it with .440 balls and a pillow ticking patch. My father bought it in 1970 and gave it to me in 1981. 40 grains of 3Fg makes a nice target load. If I was going to take it after deer I'd bump the powder charge to 65 grains of 3Fg or 70 grains of 2Fg.

If you use tightly fitting caps they won't fall off.

View attachment 156397

It's fitted with a rear peep sight and a front globe sight.

View attachment 156398

View attachment 156399

65grains of 3F and a .445 ball with .018 felt patch has been my only target load for some time now. I may have to give your 40 grain target load a try for 25 yard work.
Most of the venues I shoot have a 100 yard component and that is what I really wanted the stronger load for less wind deflection. The load seems to put the ball where the sights were at the trigger break !

 

[Southern_Saint]

65grains of 3F and a .445 ball with .018 felt patch has been my only target load for some time now. I may have to give your 40 grain target load a try for 25 yard work.
Most of the venues I shoot have a 100 yard component and that is what I really wanted the stronger load for less wind deflection. The load seems to put the ball where the sights were at the trigger break !

@M. De Land I have the buggy rifle edition and with its shorter barrel I have kept it at 45 grains FFF. I use the same size ball and patch. I am not sure that my shorter barrel would accurately throw a PRB at 50 yards with 60 and up grains. However, the 45 grain load will nearly touch bullet holes at 30 yards for me.

 

[MDH]

i may be wrong but i think these do not have a half cock notch [?] if so not the best for hunting.

They do have a 1/2 cock notch.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Yea it's been well kept and the bore looks like it's only been fired a few times.

Run, don't walk, to your vendor with money in hand [or tell me where to buy it]. Dale

 

[Southern_Saint]

They do have a 1/2 cock notch.

Mine has a 1/2 notch.

 

[11Bravo]

Both of mine have the 1/2 cock. Since I never wore glasses while hunting I felt the under hammer was perfect. A tiny drop of nail polish made sure I never lost a cap while hunting.

 

[M. De Land]

jj

@M. De Land I have the buggy rifle edition and with its shorter barrel I have kept it at 45 grains FFF. I use the same size ball and patch. I am not sure that my shorter barrel would accurately throw a PRB at 50 yards with 60 and up grains. However, the 45 grain load will nearly touch bullet holes at 30 yards for me.

I have a newer version action with flats on each side my cousin gave me. Not sure who made it but I can tell it's of higher quality than my buggy action-ed match rifle was before all the modifications I made to it. Mine never had a half cock !
I also removed the cocking spur to speed up lock time and cock it now with a deer antler tine.

 

[Bucks Co]

My second and third builds were with Numrich (H&A) barrels both 45 - 1 in 56"twist - both shot well with a 440 ball denim patch and 90grs of FFg - took my first muzzleloaded Deer with one (NZ Red Deer).

 

[Pukatea Bay Boy]

i may be wrong but i think these do not have a half cock notch [?] if so not the best for hunting.

Morena ( Good morning) from NZ
I have one of theses H&As.
31 " barrel.
They do have a 1/2 cock, but it's impossible to put cap on nipple with my fingers/ & I'd say anyone's???
Hunting. Have to put nipple on full cock & then lower down) rifle pointed in safe direction) back to 1/2 cock.

Only bad point I have with it.
Quick ignition and accurate rifle.
I like it's look. As others have said .... it's a Loke or Haye thing.
A friend of mine Can't stand it .
Each to his own In this world
Ma te wa
Chris

 

[Southern_Saint]

Morena ( Good morning) from NZ
I have one of theses H&As.
31 " barrel.
They do have a 1/2 cock, but it's impossible to put cap on nipple with my fingers/ & I'd say anyone's???
Hunting. Have to put nipple on full cock & then lower down) rifle pointed in safe direction) back to 1/2 cock.

Only bad point I have with it.
Quick ignition and accurate rifle.
I like it's look. As others have said .... it's a Loke or Haye thing.
A friend of mine Can't stand it .
Each to his own In this world
Ma te wa
Chris

I agree that the capping procedure can be kind of dicey. I was trying to cap with one of the number 11 caps and the hammer slipped out of my fingers for an accidental discharge. I was sitting in the back of my hatchback and luckily the rifle was pointed away from me up into the tree line when I was capping it. Everybody seriously freaked out as well as myself because I had no idea how it happened.

That's when I decided to switch to musket caps because I can put one of those on while it's on half instead of full.

I've been thinking about the way to develop a sort of safety mechanism for it, although that may take more fabricating work than I'm capable of.