Hoppe's

[Zonie]

Back in the mid 1980's, Hoppe's sold a few different black powder pistols.

The Hoppe's "Ethan Allen" target pistol is one of them and it was made in both factory finished and "kit" forms.
The factory finished model had engraving on the side of the barrel, while the kit did not.

Hoppe's "Ethan Allen Target Pistol" is a rather accurate recreation of a pistol made in the 1840's by Allen & Thurber which is shown in FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS . FLAYDERMAN'S says the original came in .34, .41 and .45 caliber with barrel lengths of 6 to 10 inches.
The screw in barrel by the way is not made to be removed, and although it looks like something screwed onto the end of a short pistol as an afterthough, it actually extends all the way back into the semi-octagon to a flat breech surface just ahead of the nipple.
As with most, if not all of Ethan Allens guns, there are only two moving parts and the lock is integral with the steel frame.

In 1995, I found one of the kits on the back shelf in a local gun shop and bought it.
This pistol is .45 caliber with a 6 inch barrel.
I'm fairly sure these were made in the United States as mine doesn't have any Proof Marks on it.

After finishing my pistol, I was sorely disappointed when I tried to shoot it. It would mis-fire about 90 percent of the time. Put another way, it would take about 9 caps to get it to fire once even when using Real Black Powder. :cursing:

Examining the gun revealed the source of the problem.
A very small hole, perhaps only about .040 in diameter was drilled in the breech face to connect the crossdrilled flame channel from the nipple to the bore.
Of course, by the time the caps flame traveled thru the flame channel and squeezed thru this tiny hole, it had cooled down so much it couldn't ignite the powder charge.

Last week while visiting my local Ace Hardware store my eye fell on a 1/8 inch diameter "Aircraft Length Drill". It is 12 inches long and as soon as I saw it, my thoughts strayed to my Ethan Allen's problem.
About 7 dollars later, with my new drill bit installed in my electric hand drill I was busy drilling out the tiny hole. :grin:
A word of warning about doing this. Mark the depth needed on the drill so you don't drill too deeply. If you drill too deep, you will break thru the far wall, effectivly ruining the gun.

A trip to the range on Sunday prooved the fix worked. Out of 20 shots, every one in which the cap fired, went off. :grin:
I say, "the cap fired" because this gun has a special little nipple which is quite short. In fact, the lower lip of the cap ends up resting on the flat surface adjacent to the cone so the hammer has to crush it down a little before it can crush the fulmanate.
Adding to the problem, the mainspring isn't very strong.
In the 20 shots I took, the cap failed to fire 5 times.

So "how well did it shoot?" Well, the best I could do at 15 yards was to get a 3 inch group from a rest, but I'll cop out and mention that I forgot to take my "reading glasses" with me so the sights looked fuzzy. I was also shooting a .440 dia ball with .010 thick patches which loaded so easily that I know they weren't really gripping the rifleing very well. With tighter patches and a larger ball it might have done better.

I also must add that for real target work, this pistol is much too light and the grip is way too small. Still, it's a neat little pistol to own and shoot (after you get it working). In fact, I was having so much fun with it that I almost ignored the (used) Baby Dragoon I bought last week and wanted to test.

zonie

 

[Roy]

About two years ago I made a new main spring for one of those for a local gunsmith. Interesting little pistol. :thumbsup:

 

[renovato]

What an interesting collectible. If I had known of them, I think I'd have bought one just as a curio. It's sure a good looking little thing. Thanks for sharing the pic and info about it.

 

[bob308]

there was one used in the movie quigley down under. the clerk at the shipping office had one under his desk.

 

[renovato]

Is there a website showing the various guns offered by Hoppe's? Or a history of them or anything? This has my interest up. Thanks.

 

[Zonie]

The only reference I've seen for them was printed in my 1987 DIXIE GUNWORKS Catalog.
This is a scan of page 40-41:

I would like to get the Pepperbox as it is the only recreation I know of that actually looks like what a quality Pepperbox from the 1830-1850s looked like.

Sorry about the size of the picture.
If you want to see it better, place your curser on it, right click and hit COPY IMAGE.
Then (if your running XP) click on the START button, click on Programs, Accessories, Paint.
When the paint window opens, select EDIT, then PASTE. That will paste the picture into the paint window.
The magnifing icon has a 2X scale that will enlarge the picture so you can see it and read all about it.

zonie

 

[renovato]

I wonder who manufactured them. They look to be high quality guns alright. I'm surprised they're not still on the market under one brand or another. The pepperbox does look good, especially compared to what few replicas that are out there.

 

[jlynn]

Gun Parts catalogue had them about 15 yrs ago for 39,95 each. I bought two of each and kept one of each, giving the others to friends. As you say the target pistol is pretty much a dud-very weak mainspring and odd nipple. Pepperbox is almost exact copy of an EA original-single action. PBox broke Quickly-both of them. When you cock the hammer, the weight of the 6 barrels is so heavt that it snaps off the TINY tit that they milled on the hand which is supposed to engage the reae to rotate. PBox still fires but I have to hand rotate for each shot. The double barrel is excellent in that it is well designed and fires every time and consistently shoots app 2 ft high at 20 ft. have-have to compensate. For the price I have no complaints. Tried to order 2 mor dbarrels a few months later-sold out. I guess they had bought out Hoppes remaining stock

 

[jlynn]

Bought 2 of each app 15 yrs ago from Gun Parts catalogue when the bought Hoppes remaining stock. Target pistol a dud as you pretty much state-weak spring and horrible nipple-I gave them to friends as hangers. Pepperbox will shoot but both broke quickly for the same reason. Single action requires a significant amt of effort to rotate barrels and the TINY projection milled on the hand to engage rear to cause rotation snapped off after a few shots. Pboxes still fire but I must hand rotate. Double barrels work just fine -no nipple problems and no misfires and shoots app2ft high at 20 ft. Single trigger-slight pull fires one barrel and more pull fires the other-IF you are careful GOOD FORUM jwl

 

[jlynn]

Zonie-Sorry I amnot good at this. Can you scratch one of my 2 posts? Thanks

 

[Zonie]

Sorry, but I'm not a moderator in the Pistol Forum so there's nothing I can do. (We can only frinkle in the forums where we are actually moderators.)

Don't be sorry though. The idea here is to pass on information and you did a good job of it.

It's too bad the P Box has some design flaws in it's action, but as far as the terribly heavy muzzle causing it to be difficult to aim, that is just a part of the guns design and history. It explains why Colts Paterson turned so many heads when it was introduced.

zonie

 

[Slamfire]

In a disertation on Pepper boxes, Mark Twain opined, that you might be safer, as the target, than, as the shooter. :rotf:

 

[wwfeatherston]

George Bemis . . . wore in his belt an old original "Allen" revolver, such as irreverent people called a "pepper-box." Simply drawing the trigger back, cocked and fired the pistol. As the trigger came back, the hammer would begin to rise and the barrel to turn over, and presently down would drop the hammer, and away would speed the ball. To aim along the turning barrel and hit the thing aimed at was a feat which was probably never done with an "Allen" in the world. But George's was a reliable weapon, nevertheless, because, as one of the stage-drivers afterward said, "If she didn't get what she went after, she would fetch something else." And so she did. She went after a deuce of spades nailed against a tree, once, and fetched a mule standing about thirty yards to the left of it. Bemis did not want the mule; but the owner came out with a double-barreled shotgun and persuaded him to buy it, anyhow. It was a cheerful weapon--the "Allen." Sometimes all its six barrels would go off at once, and then there was no safe place in all the region round about, but behind it.
- Roughing It