Horn Spout

[TeutonicHeathen]

I am interested in a powder horn and all the ones I see have the wood stopper in them. I am wanting a valve on mine with a measured spout. Could I buy one with a wood stopper and just put a valve in it? If so how difficult is it?

 

[Rifleman1776]

They are available but not popular. And for good reason. Pouring into a rifle directly from a container (can, horn, flask) is very dangerous. The practice is banned at most ranges and by most club rules.
For safety, one must always pour into a separate measure then into the rifle.
I have a horn like you asked about. I think I bought it with my first rifle, a CVA Ky, but used it only once until experienced shooters advised me to do differently.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I put a valve on one horn a long time a go and still us it. The trick is to use a fixed powder measure the fits over the spout on the horn. This way the mouth of the spout on the horn bottoms out on the bottom of the powder measure. I flip the horn upside down into the measure, open the valve until the spout fills up, close the valve, and let the horn down and my measure is now full and I pour it into the bore of the gun.

I have tested this method and it gives very precise amounts of powder and is fast to use. Oh, yeah and adding the spout to the horn was easy. Just drill out the spout hole and epoxy the valve bushing in and let it set. After a day just screw the valve into the bushing and you are good to go.

 

[Many Klatch]

As a safety measure I like spring loaded spouts on my horns. I use the Treso brand horns for a lot of the horns. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/1/HVP If you use a spring loaded spout like this TOW spout then you will still need a measure for the powder but you won't have to remember if you put the tip back in the horn.

Another choice is this one and I have a couple of these as well, http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/2/SPOUT-KIT-B The only problem with these is that if you have them stuffed in a pack basket for transportation they can open up on you and dump powder everywhere, so you have to be careful when putting these horns in a basket or box spout up.

Many Klatch

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

I plan on using the TOW spring spout like recommended. I am going to screw a spout measure on it. On the valve do you epoxy in the nale threaded side?

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

Also I plan in using the mountain man horn from october country. Does anybody have any reviews about them or the horn im looking at? Here is the link. http://www.octobercountry.com/products/OC-Mountain-Man-Horn.html

 

[MacRob46]

Here is a photo of a horn I made years ago using a valve, made by Treso I believe. The valve came in two parts, a threaded sleeve which I glued into the end of the horn and the valve itself which screws into the sleeve. I made a brass fitting to attach the strap to the horn. There is also a brass plate nailed to the flat plug on the end of the horn. The valve is not threaded for a measure and it is not safe to pour powder directly from the horn into the barrel, although that has been discussed elsewhere on the forum and some say it is OK. My feeling is why take a chance with something that could cause serious damage to your person. Some time ago a self-appointed expert on Scottish powder horns told me they never had spouts like that in 18th c. Scotland. In fact they used plain horns with stoppers but also a lot of different and ingenious mechanical spouts.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I get valves for my horns from the log cabin and use a small spout on them to pour directly into my horn powder measure without spilling.I like the valves because I have a problem with wooden plugs shrinking and falling out or swelling and getting stuck. I don't have to worry about droping the plug when using a valve. :idunno:

 

[Many Klatch]

We call a horn with a spring gate and a measuring spout a "Rock and Roll Horn". Most events don't allow the use of Rock and Roll Horns because the users often don't use a separate measure to charge the barrel but instead pour directly into the barrel from the horn. While that doesn't cause a problem most of the time, the downside of having a pound of blackpowder going off in your hand far out-ways any advantages.

The safety rules for most events are that you cannot pour directly into the muzzle from the horn and the Range Officer should remove you from the line if he sees you doing that.

I recommend that you get the short spout and a powder measure for your use.

Many Klatch

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

Ok im not doing this for reenactment purpose. On the horn I would have the spring valve and a measuring valve screwed in it. Say a 60 grains powder spout. I can put my finger on the end of the powder spout and open the valve and then close the valve when the spout is full then dumo that in my rifle. That is no different then what I do now except im using a powder flask instead of a horn. I dont shoot at shooting ranges or do any reenactment as of now. I would just like a easier way to measure my charge and figured I could get a horn with a spout. By getting it I will be able to get rid of my powder measure and powder flask abd just carry a horn with the desired powder charge spout. I will have more room in my possibles bag then. I want the horn for recreation shooting and hunting

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

What I would like to do is get a horn. Buy the valve spring from track of the wolf and buy a powder spout that charges 60 grains like this and install it. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/81/3/SPOUTS

 

[jethro224]

That is no different then what I do now except im using a powder flask instead of a horn. I dont shoot at shooting ranges or do any reenactment as of now.

That don't make it safe.

The members here are telling you this because they don't want to see anyone injured due to saving a few seconds or a tiny bit of space in the bag, not to aggravate you.
The safe way to load, horn or flask, spring spout or stopper, is to pour into a separate powder measure and then pour that into your bore.
While it may be very rare, it is always possible that a ember could remain in the barrel. If that spark sets off 60 grains in your powder measure you will get burnt fingers. If it sets off the same 60 grains in your horn spout which in turn lights up a pound or so of powder in your horn you might stay alive to remember when you had fingers...
Your call.

 

[Rifleman1776]

While it may be very rare, it is always possible that a ember could remain in the barrel.

Yes. It can happen.
I well remember the day one of our club members loaded his single shot (perc.) pistol and it didn't fire. Keeping it pointed in a safe direction he kept stating, loudly, "I know I loaded it with powder". After ten minutes he finally turned to go to the loading bench for repairs. At that moment the pistol discharged. Scared us all but he, being a safe shooter, still had it pointed in a safe direction.
That ember took over 10 minutes to make itself known. Can happen at the bottom of a rifle very easily.

 

[TeutonicHeathen]

Ok so everyone reccomends to just have a powder horn with a stopper? Im not aggravated at all. So what did the mountain men and fur traders historically load their rifles?

 

[George T.]

I think that they did what I do!! I make antler fixed measures in my hunting load and target load. Which ever the occasion is I put it on my horn with rawhide. I make the measures my self and put a pour spout on one side for easier pouring. I have made them for several others. I engrave the weight on the bottom of each. Geo. T.

 

[jethro224]

Stopper or valve is OK, just not a measure spout.

The way I have heard it is that a measure was included with a new rifle.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

If you really want the convenience of using a measuring spout, you can just dump the measured powder into something else to transfer it to the barrel. This is still somewhat quicker and less fussy than carefully pouring into a measure. As I believe someone has already mentioned, you could make/find something that is a snug slip-fit over the measure/spout and closes off the end, and attach it by a lanyard to the horn/flask. Upend horn/flask, open valve, shake, close valve, pull horn/flask up out of transfer thingie, pour powder into barrel, replace thingie. This thing would also serve to keep water and debris out of the measuring spout.

For what it's worth, my impression is that measuring flasks were not common until mid 19th century, and earlier they were more of an middling-sort or upper-class thing, and sometimes military. After they did become common, there were MANY admonitions in books and articles against loading directly "from the flask" for fear of possible explosion. I've read period accounts of these accidents, often with a mangled hand resulting. The alternative urged was to load "from the hand" or "from the palm", using the palm of the off hand as the intermediate transfer vessel, with a minor burn as the worst result of flash. This procedure is easy to do with a shotgun with a round barrel little larger than the bore, but harder with a rifle.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Rifleman1776]

Ok so everyone reccomends to just have a powder horn with a stopper? Im not aggravated at all. So what did the mountain men and fur traders historically load their rifles?

As George said, most likely they had a separate powder measure. Although many stories abound about pouring into their hand and just judging the amount then putting into bore.
As for the stopper. I once lost a beautiful ebony stopper. A couple times my stopper came out and powder spilled. I gave up with fancy stoppers. I now use a soft wood and simply whittle a little stopper that fits tightly. When hunting or at ronny, I pull it with my teeth and do my pouring into a measure. With the stopper in my teeth I cannot forget to replace it in the horn. Fancy is not a consideration. Plugging the spout and giving me a free hand is the main consideration.

 

[bpd303]

Separate measure vs measured spout. One thing I have noticed with a measured spout that you place your finger over is that you get less consistency of the charge, depending on how far your finger indents into the opening. With a 50gr it will throw anything from 43gr up. The object is to get as consistent as possible so I always use a separate measure topped off full. I like the idea of a separate container to use with a spout instead of my finger.