How Accurate is your Factory Built ML'er?

[w_dexter]

Thought this might be an interesting subject to see what kind of accuracy is possible with the factory built muzzleloaders,rifle's such as CVA,T/C,Pedersoli,etc.I have a CVA Mountain rifle in .45cal(USA) and I know what it will do at 50yds I also have a TC 45 Hawken that I have shot a lot also and it does well to at 50yds but not quite as good as the CVA.I am sure others do well also so jump in here and post your results and photos to if you have them

 

[paulvallandigham]

Inherent accuracy is about the barrels. One rarely finds a gun with a bad barrel. Most can shoot better groups than the shooter, even when he uses a rest! The difference in the "Achieved"
accuracy of factory guns is often a function of the QUALITY of both the LOCK, and TRIGGER(S).

The final variable that is rarely discussed is the shooter's training, and capability, to shoot iron sights accurately. With the advent of inexpensive scope sights on modern guns, its rare to find many shooters under 60 years of age who have much experience, much less training, in how to shoot iron sights accurately beyond 50 yards. Off-hand shooting skills are non-existent with most younger shooters, as they prefer to use a scope rather than do the long hard work to learn how to shoot tiny groups at longer ranges using iron sights.

The sad irony is that if they simply did dry-firing practice looking thru that scope sight, and then did off-and shooting at 100 and 200 yds., they would have fine skills for shooting iron sights, too. The higher the magnification of the scope, the more those crosshairs wiggle and dance with every heartbeat. Learn proper stance, hold, breath control, trigger squeeze, and follow thru to slow those dancing cross hairs, and they could be very fine off-hand shooters with any kind of sights. It just takes practice to earn to shoot iron sights as well. :hatsoff:

Oh, many factory sights are less than optimum for most shooters. You need to see daylight on both sides of that front sight when looking over/thru the rear sight notch, regardless of your age, or the condition of your eyesight. Open up that rear sight notch or change the sight. :shocked2: :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

My factory rifles were T/C’s with T/C or GM barrels on them”¦all extremely accurate”¦a few photo examples you asked about:

.50cal T/C

.54cal GM Smoothbore

.58cal GM

.58cal GM

.62cal GM Rifled

 

[hanshi]

+1 what Paul said. I have two imports I can comment on. My .32 Crockett easily shoots under an inch at 30+ yards, about as far as I can hit a squirrel's head. My Euroarms US M1841 .54 Mississippi rifle will do an inch at 60 yards.

Even with a flyer it still measures barely over an inch.

 

[w_dexter]

Those look good Hanshi,hopefully other will post there results

 

[BrownBear]

No pics, but I have to say the limit for me has always been more about sights and my eyes than the bore. So many times I just KNOW the gun would do better with younger eyes, and proved it by having another shooter with young eyes and good shooting skills do some shooting with the same gun.

Among the imports I've tried, my Lymans and Investarms have always been more accurate than Traditions or Pedersoli, and as good or better than TCs.

My 54 cal GPR is a real standout, even with my eyes. I can usually manage groups around 2 1/2" to 3" at 100 yards with its favorite load. My young friend handily breaks 2" every time he sits down with it. Interesting thing about that though, it always shoots tighter when I load it for him than when he loads it himself. Go figger, but it likely has to do with experience loading that particular gun.

That brings up an interesting point. Any time I've had a gun that "wouldn't shoot" it turned out to be more a case that I hadn't found the right component combo yet for that gun. Continued shooting and testing almost always turned the gun into a tack driver.

To me that sezz the combo of the shooter and load has more to do with accuracy than the name stamped on the barrel.

 

[VEARL]

Ihave to agree on the sights and on a good working load for getting the best accuracy out of a gun.
Had a CVA Mountain rifle 45 cal 1/66 twist. Worked up a good load and it put the RB in a hole at 100 yds.
My T.C.'s are all 1/48 twist and the best I can get out of them are around 2 to 3 inch groups at 75 yds,
My Lyman GPR 50 cal 1/ 66 twist will put all shots in a 2 inch group at 75 yads.
All my T.C. rifles and the one Lyman rifle have a thick front sight. So it pretty well covers a 6 inch round target at 75 yds. So I have started shooting at the very bottom of a "V" target. Holding a 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the "V". It is easier for me to see that POA and get my POI to strike there.

 

[garandman]

A little over 3" at 50 yards with my CVA Wolf off a bench. I got a Traditions Deerhunter than I can't get much better than 5" at 50, but I think that has to do with the sights - fiber optic that are very difficult to get a consistent sight picture.

 

[Adui]

I cant vouch for other names brands, but my traditions .50 is capable of far more accuracy than I am. I've proven it by shooting with my former hunting buddy. We took turns shooting and just like with modern guns he out shot me hands down. (and I was loading!)

 

[Trot]

My best is an Investarms Hawken .50 , it will cut one ragged hole at fifty yards. My Lyman Trade rifle in .54 is almost as good. I haven't had as much luck at 100 yards, but I am not sure if it is the fault of the guns or my old eyes! I have had two CVA's, a mountain rifle and a frontier rifle that were mediocre at best, maybe two inches or so at fifty.

 

[damron]

I see 1"-1.5"5 shot groups at 50 with TC and lyman/Investarm .50 and .54 barrels.Now I have quite a few groups under 1" i brag about but those are not average in any sense.At 100 yards 3" is a common groups size.Put a peep sight on the rifles and groups often shrink to under 2" at 100 and the old"ragged hole" at 50.At 100 as others have said the sighting(and wind ) becomes the accuracy issue rather than the mechanical accuracy of the rifle set up.

 

[FRJ]

Both of my M/L's shoot well into 1.5" @ 50yards. Thats what I would look for and would't quit my load development till I did. FRJ

 

[ohio ramrod]

All of my rifles are more accurate than I am! Wheather factory made, kit assembled, or custom made. Accuracy is a matter of solid mounting on barrel, smooth fast acting lock, proper patch/ball / powder charge. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[roger fisher]

I owned a 50 cal cva that I bought on gunbroker .com for $165.00 or something like that. That rifle was dead on from the box and it hit exactly where you aimed it. Very accurate indeed. I sold it to a buddy of mine for his son to use.

 

[Lonegun1894]

When I hold my tongue and cross my eyes just right, my CVA .50 will do 3-4" at 100yds, and my Lymans will do 2-3" at 100--all this with a rest. Unfrotunately, I can't claim to be able to do that everytime. Consistent 4-5" groups are what the Lymans do and 5-6" for the CVA, but I really think it is more a function of the Lyman GPR being a better fit overall and I just prefer the sights on them over what my CVA has. I trust either on deer/hogs out to 100yds and a bit further if everything is right, but haven't shot one that far out with either yet.

 

[cynthialee]

Considering how the old man I got it from used it to hunt the special season for over 20 years and his freezer was never empty I am gonna go on the assumption that it can shoot better than I can.

 

[MSW]

well, they can group tighter tan i can hold them, so no amount of armchair theorizing on my part will change a darn thing until i get to the range and practice.

 

[Ron_T.]

All 3 or my rifles are .50 caliber, I have 1 Pennsylvania Long Rifle (a Traditions flintlock "Shenandoah" with a 33½ inch, 1:66 twist barrel) and 2 CVA Hawken caplocks, 1 Hawken rifle with a 28 inch barrel and the CVA "Hawken Hunter" Carbine with a 24 inch barrel... all 3 of which can shoot better than I can. Both of the Hawken rifles are 1:48 twist.

Strangely enough, all three of these rifles "like" 47 grains of Swiss FFFg as a "target" load and my little "Hawken Hunter" Carbine's hunting load is 70 grains of Swiss FFFg black powder which will pile one shot on top of another at the rangess at which I'll shoot at a deer.

They rifles are actually more accurate than I am... and generally shoot most of their patched, round rifle balls into groups measuring a 1 inch or so over-lapping, 3 to 4 shot "clumps" off-the-bench along with a usual "flier" or two at 50 yards making a 1½ to 2 inch group outta it.

The "fliers" are probably NOT actually "fliers", but are 'most likely my 76 year old eyes more than the rifle's fault 'cause I get about the SAME kinds of groups (only slightly smaller) at 25 yards off the bench, too.

I'm pretty sure a younger man with better eyesight could shrink down those groups a bit 'cause a man can't shoot BETTER than he can see.

Since I have a self-imposed range limit on taking shots at deer of 75-80 yards off a rest of some kind (a tree, my knees when sitting, etc.) in the woods, the little Hawken Carbine's very consistent & accurate ½ inch to 1 inch, 3-shot groups at 25 yards are more-than-adequate for hitting a deer's kill zone at 75 yards.

I've had a bit of "tuning" done on the locks and hammer springs... and all three rifles have lightly-set, double-set triggers which helps with the accuracy.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[rafterob]

Traditions Hunter Hawkin will shoot where I point it (as long as I can hold it real still).

 

[BrianL]

Traditions Hunter Hawkin will shoot where I point it (as long as I can hold it real still).

Most of mine will shoot where they are pointed. The problem lies in consistently pointing them where I would like the ball to go :thumbsup: