How and why does follow through actually work?

[azmntman]

For ducks follow though is like this...Bird...Beak...BOOM! My duck mentor called it swing thru but same thing.

And Alden...I never got the hang of determining where they were gonna be? I have tried :idunno: , I just follow thru as per above.

 

[Artificer]

"In the latter case, if you miss the first shot and have no idea where the gun was aimed when it went off, you can’t properly adjust your aim to hit on the next shot."


If your gun is properly sighted in and the shot wanders off, there is but one problem, you lost the front sight in the aiming process.

You did not focus on the front sight, pure and simple. You do not need to adjust you aim point on the next shot, you need to focus on the front sight as in the past shots.

Not trying to be argumentative, just adding to the discussion.

I was a bit rushed earlier and now have more time to answer. I can think of at least three different exceptions even when perfect sight alignment was kept with proper follow through.

The first instance is either when one does not correctly judge the wind OR the wind changes while one is shooting. If the wind change is constant, then knowing where the sights were when the shot went off is very important to be able to aim off for the wind change.

The next instance is again when one keeps perfect sight alignment and follow through, BUT the shot goes off at the outer edge of your wobble area. If one can’t tell that is what happened, then one may wrongly adjust trying to get the round closer to the center of the aiming point or bullseye.

In hunting, one often can not time to establish a natural point of aim. But if one does not establish their natural point of aim on the target range, that will either increase one’s wobble area or cause one to have to muscle into position for each shot to shoot well.
Gus

 

[FishDFly]

Not trying to be argumentative, just adding to the discussion.

I was a bit rushed earlier and now have more time to answer. I can think of at least three different exceptions even when perfect sight alignment was kept with proper follow through.

The first instance is either when one does not correctly judge the wind OR the wind changes while one is shooting. If the wind change is constant, then knowing where the sights were when the shot went off is very important to be able to aim off for the wind change.

The next instance is again when one keeps perfect sight alignment and follow through, BUT the shot goes off at the outer edge of your wobble area. If one can’t tell that is what happened, then one may wrongly adjust trying to get the round closer to the center of the aiming point or bullseye.

In hunting, one often can not time to establish a natural point of aim. But if one does not establish their natural point of aim on the target range, that will either increase one’s wobble area or cause one to have to muscle into position for each shot to shoot well.
Gus




Artificer and Stumpkiller have interestingly changed the parameters of the discussion.

My initial take on follow through was from the perspective of a line pistol shooter which I have been working on for several years.

When discussing follow through from a hunting perspective, be it at running critters or flying fowl they injected things I have forgotten of. Lessons drummed into me by my father, but not considered from a line shooters perspective, thanks for reminding me.

There are really 2 types of follow through, one stationary target and one moving target.

 

[Alden]

"Wobble area."

You've already distinguished yourself here as a competitor; a league ahead of the average.

Welcome to the forum from another sideways figure-8 lover.

 

[Alden]

Az;
You can't "do it," it just happens. When you get to the point when you're doing everything right and shooting "in the zone," a zen thing, it's an almost out of body experience. You don't watch the lock, feel strain or pain, hear the loud gun, know exactly the moment it's gonna go off, but you see the front sight relative to the target when the gun's firing surprises you. It's all in sorta slow motion and, as I said, "just happens"...

 

[Darkgael]

Follow through is the subconscious attempt to keep everything just as it was at the time the shot broke.

I wonder about how subconscious it is..... ideally, it is so but really?

 

[Walks with fire]

A good follow thru lets you know you fired a good shot. The flinch or jerk happens before the shot is fired and you will know for sure you flinched by your follow thru. A flinch is the sub-conscious mind reacting to an action in process that the mind thinks may hurt you. After enough shooting the mind is sure you won't hurt yourself and you get the nice follow thru at the shot. The key is visualization (rapid mind pictures) of your target and full sub-conscious commitment to the target.

Complete target focus and running on the sub-conscious prevents negative thoughts of a poor outcome. Nothing mechanical.

 

[Artificer]

Az;
You can't "do it," it just happens. When you get to the point when you're doing everything right and shooting "in the zone," a zen thing, it's an almost out of body experience. You don't watch the lock, feel strain or pain, hear the loud gun, know exactly the moment it's gonna go off, but you see the front sight relative to the target when the gun's firing surprises you. It's all in sorta slow motion and, as I said, "just happens"...

Alden, that is an excellent way to describe a good shot.

Speaking of Zen, when I was the Instructor of OJT's (Apprenticeship Instructor) at the RTE Shop at Quantio,VA - one of many things I taught was "Zen Draw Filing." Same basic mental program where one just "thinks" to file more where one needs to file.
Gus

 

[Artificer]

"Wobble area."

You've already distinguished yourself here as a competitor; a league ahead of the average.

Welcome to the forum from another sideways figure-8 lover.

Alden
Thanks for the kind words and it is always great to meet another competitive shooter.

However, though I spent 23 years of my career around Bullseye Pistol, NM and International Rifle and other forms of Shooting ”“ I never fired a round in that competition. My astigmatism kept me out of that rarified field of shooters. My job was to build, repair and rebuild NM, Sniper and Special Weapons in the Corps for those shooters.

My only “claim to fame” for rifle shooting was I tied 8 Marines before me in 1988 for the All Time High Requalification Record of 249/250 at Quantico. This was after I passed and was certified as an NRA Police Firearms Instructor. I joked that after having been around some of the best shooters in the country for about 12 years at that time, that course was what “finally turned all the lights on” for me for shooting. Though I had fired Expert in both Rifle and Pistol Requalification for years before that, my scores in both guns went up to the High End of the Expert scores afterward.

Now back to muzzleloading shooting. Grin. As you well know as a competitive shooter, good marksmanship techniques are just as sound for muzzle loader as modern guns. Actually a good flintlock shooter has to demonstrate some of the best follow through of many types of competition.

Gus

 

[Dphar]

It works by allowing you to hit the target.
If you REALLY want a lesson in this try shooting a 6" barreled FL pistol. It will teach you trigger squeeze and follow through. Follow through is needed with ANY firearm not just a FL.
Dan

 

[Col. Batguano]

Anyone know what the time is between trigger break, and barrel exit for a typical 44" barreled 50 cal flinter, with a typical PRB target load? How about for a .22 rifle?

 

[Zonie]

I bet its less than a second.

I'm not sure that the time from the pulling of a trigger to the exit of the bullet or ball has anything to do with follow thru though.
Not at least if it is done right.

Look at Alden's post which said,

You can't "do it," it just happens. When you get to the point when you're doing everything right and shooting "in the zone," a zen thing, it's an almost out of body experience. You don't watch the lock, feel strain or pain, hear the loud gun, know exactly the moment it's gonna go off, but you see the front sight relative to the target when the gun's firing surprises you. It's all in sorta slow motion and, as I said, "just happens"... "

If the shooters mind frame is geared for the proper follow thru, that's an exact description of what happens.

It's also one of the first things that Alden has said that I can totally agree with. :rotf:

 

[ChrisHarris]

No human can hold a rifle perfectly steady. You can't even do it from a bench with sand bags. If you have the butt of the rifle pulled up into your shoulder area, the gun is going to move as you breath.

When I am shooting, I take one really big, deep breath and blow it out. Then I pull up on the target and start to breath normally. Then draw the front sight down into the notch in the rear sight. After I get the front sight lined up in the rear sight, I don't focus on anything except the front sight. The target is a blur because my eye is focused about 28" in front of me - not down range at the target.

Watch the front sight move around as you breath. I've noticed a pattern that looks a little bit like a figure 8 that is canted sorta sideways with the top at the 1 o'clock position and the bottom around the 7 o'clock position. It makes a slow and rhythmic figure 8 pattern - back and forth - high and low.

I try to breath consistently. The end of the barrel moves in a rhythm with my breathing. I can see the front sight wavering past the center of the target twice with each repetition of the figure 8 pattern - once on the up and once on the down side.

I set my back trigger and then lay my finger on the front trigger. I apply slow pressure, but not enough to trip the trigger. I KNOW how much pressure it takes to trip that front trigger and I stay "off" it until just the right moment. I try to trip the front trigger when the barrel is moving towards the center of the target. I anticipate just a tiny bit ahead - because the barrel is still moving and I figure by the time the ball leaves the barrel, I've moved a tiny bit.

Be patient and let the target come to you. You have many opportunities to hit the center. Just watch the pattern on the front sight as it moves in the pattern with your breathing. Try to trip the trigger just a micro second before the front sight crosses the center of the target.

Probably totally wrong (in the world of competitive shooters), but it works for me.

 

[Alden]

Actually, Chris, not at all.

Individuals have different approaches once you have gotten past the point of minimizing what you recognized as that sideways figure-8 I mentioned above. Ultimately it gets way past breathing, which is totally over-rated when you have shooting to do, and down to the padded pulse of your heartbeat which, yes, can be slowed and managed often partially in the manner of firing management you outline... Different positions often require somewhat different approaches.

Locktime is a little more problematic with flintlocks, a slight bit less perhaps for caps. Matchlocks? All bets are off! LOL

 

[ChrisHarris]

My apologies Alden if I repeated something you had already stated. I admit that I did not read through every single post prior..... many of them, but not all. :redface:

Edit:
"wobble area" :hatsoff:

 

[M. De Land]

I have noticed that the more I practice the more often "it just happens" though.

 

[don hepler]

Follow thru, teaches your brain what a perfect golf swing feels like, and what a well placed shot feels like.

A bad golf swing has no follow thru. But, when you hit a perfect shot, you'll follow thru and frame it. On a perfect shot, I see the target, even after the shot.

That's what follow thru, means to me.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

:thumbsup: Nicely said.....But No kidding you called it So well it seems almost wrong to talk about it.

Like the lines from Hemingway's The Short Happy Life Of Francis Macomber

Where Macomber voices the feelings he is having about following up a wounded Cape Buffalo.....

"Do you have that feeling of happiness about what’s going to happen?" Macomber asked, still exploring his new wealth.
"You’re not supposed to mention it," Wilson said, looking in the other’s face. "Much more fashionable to say you’re
scared. Mind you, you’ll be scared too, plenty of times."
"But you have a feeling of happiness about action to come?"
"Yes," said Wilson. "There’s that. Doesn’t do to talk too much about all this. Talk the whole thing away. No pleasure in anything if you mouth it up too much."


You almost said it too well, that point, that moment when you have hit the target, but not yet shot... Dang it Alden! It's not even mid week & my mind is already off walking a ridgeline Rifle in hand.

 

[Alden]

LOL Well thank you much for the accolades.

Hunting itself offers its own broad range of such moments that include "the shot." There's the sense of being "in the zone," a singular sharp focus, when "in the chase" which only those who have hunted can understand I'm certain. It is not the killing yet it does strike me as primitive, maybe base -- I don't know -- followed by an unexplainable sense of victory coupled with profound respect for one's prey and the nature we are part of...

...and which is clearly part of us however far we've distanced ourselves from it.

 

[Billnpatti]

Right on the money. Well said. :thumbsup: