How do hobby makers finish the metal?

[StevenHawken]

I have been thinking about a lefty flinlock Hawken kit TOTW sells. I can do any woodworking & finishing as I used to make musical instruments and even any metal machining necessary, but my biggest concern is finishing the metal. My experience in this is using cold blue for touchups, which is about all it's good for. I would want to brown the barrel at least but have heard cold browning solution is just as bad as cold blue for large jobs.

OOPS this should go in the Builder's Bench sorry!

 

[wattlebuster]

Steven if you want a brown then get you some LMF browning solution. it comes with easy instructions and does a great job. :thumbsup:

 

[Dane]

Cold browning, if done correctly, is the best, most durable finish you can use. It's easy, and in actually "in" the metal, instead of just on the metal.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Cold browning is the way to go. I've only used LMF on one small job and it seems to do ok, but I like Wahkon Bay Aqua Fortis. It doesn't degrease the steel like AF, but if you're careful about cleaning the steel and not getting your greasy fingers on it, it gives you a beautiful, rich and deep finish. I just bought a new supply of it as well as their maple stain from the maker. Can't hardly wait to start a new job so I can use it.

 

[FRJ]

The original finishes were cold. The LMF cold brown from them or TOW works great and will give you a beautiful brown finish. I did my GPR with it and it looks great. FRJ

 

[illuveatar]

I'm just getting into the building hobby myself. I purchased a cheap CVA Plainsman .50cal a year ago and have replaced all the plastic hardware with brass, modified the barrel from percussion to flintlock, added a patchbox, double set triggers.

My most recent project was stripping all the bluing off and browning the metal bits. I used Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown for all the small parts (lock, trigger, tang, sights). This was pretty easy, I put all the parts in the oven and set it to 300 deg F, after a few coats all my little parts looked great.

On suggestion from someone in this forum I decided to try LMF Cold Browning solution for the barrel, I just finished the process last night and it was also easy and looks great. I hung the barrel in the shower and let the bathroom steam up every few hours to aid in the oxidation.

Both methods seem to be pretty simple and yield excellent results as long as you follow the directions provided. Good luck in all your endeavors.

 

[Many Klatch]

The simplest finish is just to leave your gun in the white. After a few years of use they get a beautiful steel gray look that is hard to duplicate. Some of the guns in museums started out in the white but a couple of hundred years of oxidation gives them that brown look.

Many Klatch

 

[ron ward]

i think most of the guns of the time, from smaller makers, were delivered in the white and the patina was left to develope from time,weather and use. i know the vincents were done that way. today and in more modern times, browning/blueing is done to deliver a gun that looks aged and "correct" when delivered. back then, it was just accepted that the darker patina would develope over time. the bigger makers, remington, winchester, sharps, etc. had the recources to experiment on finnishes (blueing, etc.) that the smaller makers couldn't afford to do and IMHO had no intrest in investing the time and effort. the guns were used, handled and in the weather so very much more often than our guns today.they type of steel used and storage conditions were more or less conducive to developing the browned finish, so the patina developed much faster all by itself. at the rate we use our guns, todays gun enthusiasts don't want to wait that long. it's hard to duplicate that naturally developed patina with chemicals, that's why there's so many opinions/products when it comes to finishing the steel on your gun. everybody's searching for that majic potient that speeds up mother nature and it really doesn't exhist.

 

[Keb]

Boiling the metal parts in Clorox will produce interesting results. Just do it in a well ventilated spot.

 

[Tumblernotch]

The simplest finish is just to leave your gun in the white. After a few years of use they get a beautiful steel gray look that is hard to duplicate. Some of the guns in museums started out in the white but a couple of hundred years of oxidation gives them that brown look.

Many Klatch

A rifle I built a couple of years ago has a barrel on it that had been in my shop for 18 years waiting for a stock. Didn't have to do a thing to finish it. It has a really nice gray patina. Sometimes I prefer this kind of finish, but on some guns I prefer that super deep brown I get from WB AF.

 

[brownie1934]

Don't believe everything you hear and only a half of what you see. Cold blue is no more than a thin coat of copper wash with a chemical to turn it blue and has no place on a fine gun. It stinks of copper sulfate and takes a very long time for the smell to go away. You would be better off leaving the gun in the white and let mother nature age it!!!!
LMF brown is hard to beat in a long gun and follow the directions carefully and you should have no prbolem.
Just a personal observation. I expect I will be taken to task by those who opt to use cold blue but these are my beliefs and I will stick to them. Bob

 

[44-henry]

Do a bit of research first, a lot of folks think the Hawken brothers blued their rifles. A good rust blue might be much more appropriate on that rifle.

Regards,

Alex Johnson

 

[Zonie]

Boiling the metal parts in Clorox will produce interesting results. Just do it in a well ventilated spot.

But be forewarned, even cold chlorine bleach will cause a tremendous amount of useless red rust and will cause severe pitting on any carbon steel part it touches.

Also, once started it is very difficult to wash the bleach off and to get it to stop attacking the metal.

IMO it is best used if someone wants to cause 150 years of neglect in 15 minutes time.

 

[mikemeteor]

But be forewarned, even cold chlorine bleach will cause a tremendous amount of useless red rust and will cause severe pitting on any carbon steel part it touches. Also, once started it is very difficult to wash the bleach off and to get it to stop attacking the metal.
IMO it is best used if someone wants to cause 150 years of neglect in 15 minutes time.

Even though I use cold bleach in my own aging process, I cannot disagree with Zonie's analysis (as usual).
The red rust that results from putting bleach on cold blue is almost immediate, and it also will rub back off almost immediately, no matter how long you let the piece sit there reacting.
In other words, it appears to be very superfical.

I do think this step adds some interesting texture to the surface... the pitting referenced by Zonie.
I think the trick is to not let that pitting get overdone, or it does veer off into Zonie's look of "neglect".
I usually let them rust for about 2 hours each treatment cycle (I do 2 or 3 repeats). It could be that any effect of this rusting step is completely in my own mind. :youcrazy:

haven't tried the boiling bleach thing myself. results I've seen in pictures don't work for me personally.
/mm

 

[Keb]

One of the House brothers built a Hawken gun on a video some time ago and used the boiling bleach method on the iron. He tells the mixture & how long to let boil, etc. When it's cooled he uses a soft wire wheel to burnish the parts and removes the useless red dust. :/
I ain't never seen a House gun look bad and this one was no exception. I guess he just knows what he's doing or something because it sure didn't look neglected to me.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I prefer the Birchwood casey hot browning, for ease and time

But I have done a few with just an acidic solution with a drop of soap to help it stick to the metal. It takes a while, as in repeat applications and scrubbing with fine steel wool in between, but the results seem to look more like originals that I have had. I' have tried lemon juice, vinegar, salt water, etc.

There is a way to wrap the barrel in coarse cloth soaked with solution and get a damascus twist look to the metal. I have seen poor results and super results and plan to try it with a pistol build I am working on.

 

[fm tim]

Two approaches on the table:
1) Antique-used look - The bleach strategy, and Allen Martins Browning removal methods are designed to create an antique like surface (pitted). That works if you want an antique look.
2) New construction look - If you want the apperance of a newly constructed rifle, you can get a nice even brown using the browning methods without the pitting if that is the look you want. Boil it after browning and it will turn black. The Naval jelly methods produce etching of the surface, and an even grey.

To each his own. Ask 10 builders, and you will get 15 different methods.

 

[fatboy]

I have seen some done and didnt look bad at all and had that old look spritz some cold blue on your metal let dry dunk in the bleach. The bleach is going to attack the blued spots and give a deeper etch there at least this is what they told me not !00% what they used to neutralize it Im guessing baking soda

 

[LaBonte]

Do a bit of research first, a lot of folks think the Hawken brothers blued their rifles. A good rust blue might be much more appropriate on that rifle.

Regards,

Alex Johnson

correct you are and not just think...
"The few Hawkens in good enough condition to see original barrel finish are blued. The blue is fairly dark. I like the color I get by doing a satin slow rust brown, followed by boiling the barrel in water to duplicate the color. When doing the rust blue, don't overpolish or you get too bright a color. It is not the deep translucent blue seen on European guns. The rib and thimbles were also blued.
The breech and tang were case hardened as well as the lock, butt plate, trigger guard, trigger bar,entry thimble and nose cap. Not the highly colored case of modern firearms but a mottled grey case that some of the early makers called forge casing." per Don Stith

 

[StewartLeach]

Cold browning is not all that hard, especially if you use the Laurel Mtn. Forge reagent. Despite the instructions, clean any oiliness off before applying the solution.

Cold browns work best in a humid environment. Out here in semi0arid Colorado i use one of those long, low plastic containers sold at WallyMart for storing Christmas wrappings or shoes under a bed. A wet pad of folded cloth goes in the bottom to keep the moisture level high.

Even a 42" barrel will fit diagonally. I support the barrel on a pine plug tapped into the muzzle and the breech plug, and turn the barrel every couple of hours to let gravity redistribute the solution. Otherwise, follow the directions.

White Fox