How does a rutty buck's neck swell?

[Skychief]

I hesitated posting this as it might show some ignorance on my part.

Then, I remembered, the only "dumb" question is the one that goes unasked.

The buck I killed this year had a tremendous, swollen neck. As many here, I have taken several bucks with swollen necks around the rut.

I can't say why, but, this evening I wondered what is actually happening in these bucks. In other words, physiologically, what is actually swelling within the neck and how????? :idunno:

Anybody actually know?

Best regards, Skychief. :hatsoff:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Hormones (testosterone) cause muscles in the neck and sex organs to become enlarged.

 

[Stringbean]

I'm not a whitetail biologist but I may have an idea. Bucks are capable of breeding once they have shed their velvet. The rise of testosterone in their system makes this happen. Testosterone is one of the hormones responsible for muscle growth. Along with elevated hormone levels an increase in exercise of the neck muscles through rubbing and similar activities result in a swollen neck.
String

 

[Sean Gadhar]

I don't know how ever it is my understanding that during the start of rut there is a huge surge in testosterone {steroids} combine that with a sudden over use of neck muscles, raking brush, sparing, then fighting. It would be equivalent to you working on the 20th floor & taking the elevator 10 months a year, then getting overlapping steroid injections and jogging the stairs up & down for two months.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Oh sure you got it out 4 min. faster then me :blah:

 

[Skychief]

Sounds like we have a consensus. It is actually muscle growth due to testosterone and extra use of the neck.

It amazes me how they lose this muscle bulk after the rut.

Thanks guys for the information. And, thanks for not snickering at the question! :slap:

Best regards, Skychief.

 

[Stringbean]

Haha, and Stumpkiller got me by less than a minute :v

 

[FishDFly]

Sounds like we have a consensus. It is actually muscle growth due to testosterone and extra use of the neck.

It amazes me how they lose this muscle bulk after the rut.

Thanks guys for the information. And, thanks for not snickering at the question! :slap:

Best regards, Skychief.

Actually you do not have a consensus, all are wrong.

Bucks necks become enlarged from rubbing their horns to remove the velvet. The rubbing enlarges their neck muscles, similar to athletes working out with weights and increasing their muscles.

Read "A Pracrtical Guide to Producing and Harvesting White-Tailed Deer" by Dr. James Kroll, you can learn a lot. What dos a PhD know?

Had an interesting conversation with his daughter who is a also a PhD this week. I have a very a-typical buck who is still in velvet as of this week. I had photos of him and he is a solid 12 point and would be a 13 except he broke off a tine. I asked her what happened to him and she said that he has a hormonal problem and would not shed his velvet until his hormones return to normal.

Amazing what you can learn from folks with knowledge.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

It was a good question, our answer is to my knowledge only the prevailing thought on the matter. I have not seen where a large scale study was ever done.

I have a Mule deer on my wall & was offered a LOT of $$$ for the cape. Taxidermist said the roman nose & thick neck would be a great cape for "a really great rack" & (he said) guys would pay top dollar to have their Rack set on a manly looking cape :idunno: I was a kid & it kinda made me feel like my deers rack wasn't worth mounting So I took photos before I left to make sure he didn't swap capes on me :nono:

 

[Stringbean]

So testosterone and exercise was the wrong answer???

 

[Stringbean]

Sounds like we have a consensus. It is actually muscle growth due to testosterone and extra use of the neck.

It amazes me how they lose this muscle bulk after the rut.

Thanks guys for the information. And, thanks for not snickering at the question! :slap:

Best regards, Skychief.

Actually you do not have a consensus, all are wrong.

Amazing what you can learn from folks with knowledge.

"Actually" You can have a consensus and still be wrong. Just sayin'

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Actually you do not have a consensus, all are wrong.

Bucks necks become enlarged from rubbing their horns to remove the velvet. The rubbing enlarges their neck muscles, similar to athletes working out with weights and increasing their muscles.

Read "A Pracrtical Guide to Producing and Harvesting White-Tailed Deer" by Dr. James Kroll, you can learn a lot. What dos a PhD know?


Amazing what you can learn from folks with knowledge.

"What dos a PhD know?" :hmm: not mule deer. Our mule deer come out of velvet weeks if not a month or more before they show signs of rut & a swollen neck. So according to your PhD the Mule deer bucks begin to strip off their velvet in mid-September and the results suddenly appear about the 3rd week in November skipping October all together?

Actually you do not have a consensus, all are wrong.

:idunno: maybe, but I'd sure include you & your PhD in that "all are wrong"

 

[Grumpa]

No, "testosterone and exercise" was the right answer. If it wasn't for the hormones. the buck wouldn't be doing all that "exercising"! :wink:

 

[Spikebuck]

I'm not a whitetail biologist but I may have an idea. Bucks are capable of breeding once they have shed their velvet.

Bucks are actually "capable" of breeding 365 days a year...and do it all year in tropical areas where timing of new-born deer isn't a survival factor.

The surge of testosterone is there to create the irresistable urge to breed and "time" the rut properly for new-born survival. Remember that there are usually two, if not even three cycles for does, in those latter ones the testosterone surge is waning and/or gone already. In the first rut, not all does are bred. A second "weaker" rut follows 28 days later when those unbred does cycle again. In areas with good food where female fawns are in excellent condition, a third breeding cycle will happen when a portion of those fawns actually cycle into heat their very first time. These are usually the reason for the fawns you see in Sept/Oct still with spots...very late breeding of the prior year's fawns.

I do not agree that simple rubbing of velvet, which only takes a VERY short time, is the primary reason for all the neck muscle. That process only takes hours to accomplish and alone could not possibly result in that much neck muscle growth. I have hundredss of pictures of bucks that are "hard antlered" the first week of September and their neck has not even begun to swell to the size it is in the full rut. This is because the testosterone surge is JUST starting then. Testosterone surge over several months is the primary cause just like what happens when humans take large volumes of it.

 

[Spikebuck]

http://bigdeerblog.com/?p=1072
http://www.answers.com/Q/Buck_deer_neck_swells_during_rutting_season

From the QDMA:

June 22 to April 18 ”“ Range from the earliest date a doe was bred by a buck (June 22) to the latest date (April 18) in a study of more than 300 hunter-harvested does examined by the Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission. The rut peak varies from July in south Florida to late February in northwest Florida, which is likely the widest variation in the timing of the rut peak found in a single state.

50% ”“ Average change in buck neck circumference during the rut. The University of Delaware found this while studying more effective designs for expandable collars used in tracking deer for research purposes.

 

[Patocazador]

Taxidermist said the roman nose & thick neck would be a great cape for "a really great rack" & (he said) guys would pay top dollar to have their Rack set on a manly looking cape :idunno:

Unfortunately, I used a taxidermist who caused Stretch marks in the cape of a deer I killed with a pistol because "it looks more manly."

I complained and he said I should be happy.
I wanted the deer mounted like he was, not like the taxidermist thinks he should be. :slap: