How far and how good is your Enfield

[faw3]

Before going on with the sharpshooting part on here..anyone tryed long shoots say 500, 700, 900 yards? Really need to know and cant spare the bucks for one to test my ideas out on. Thanks Fred :hatsoff:

 

[torn moc]

Others say the enfield is capable,,,I personally couldnt see the target at those ranges...but my enfield is dead on at 150...and thats good 'Nuff fer me!

 

[rebel727]

I dunno bout the longer ranges but mine will hold minute of five gallon bucket at 300 yds. shooting from a prop.

 

[ResearchPress]

I won the MLAGB 600 yard National Championships for Enfield rifle last year and was second this year. Match is 15 shots fired prone with only a two point sling permitted for support. Bull scores 5 with scoring rings down to 1.

In this years 600 yard match, I had 11 shots inside the 39" dia. 3 ring, 8 of which were inside the 26" dia. 4 ring. Of the remainder, 3 scored 2 and 1 scored 1.

Furthest I have fired Enfield is 800 yards. A club I am in have an Enfield aggregate fired at 600 and 800 yards. 15 shots prone each distance, sling for support. The NRA(GB) 800 yards target is 118" wide x 70" high. I had 11 shots of 15 on target in this years match at that distance. Nine of these shots were in a group approx. 56" wide by 48" high.

If the 800 yard target was considered as a Civil War sized cannon, then the crew would have been having a tough time!

David

 

[poordevil]

I understand the Enfield load is supposed to go through 6 1" pine boards at 1,000 yrds.


P

 

[rebel727]

I understand the Enfield load is supposed to go through 6 1" pine boards at 1,000 yrds.


P

I know it will go completely through a four room frame house at 500 and keep going provided it doesn't hit any studs.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Many people under-estimate the potency of these old guns, perhaps because of the low velocity and seemingly light powder charge. But once you learn to use a rifle-musket well, it is a fearsome weapon and an excellent hunting tool. The accuracy is good, and like most military firearms they are overbuilt so reliability isn't a worry. And they can reach out there when you need them to.

 

[faw3]

David happy to see you back on, did the week pass that fast? "IKE" as it was called took us out for 2 days no elc,water,tv,phone or this thing.( :rotf: on the tv) Happy you could throw some weight on this for me,it kind of clears up the under 1000 yard shots and by that takes a lot of Witworth "kills" off the table when they could of been Enfield shots. I saw a pic of a 3 band 58 cal with a flat back sight (it laid flat on barrel) and it and front sight had adjusting wheels) its marked CSA. I thought it couldn't be a Wit because ther barrel is a good 4 or more inchs past the wood. So I guess the story in " Lees Sharpshooters" and these other books are true about them ( CSA sharpshooters) takeig the pick of the guns (best shooters - gun and man shooting it) and even the swaged down Yank 58s in the Enfields to make a better than 50/50 chance shot o someone at 1000, ( I think we talked about the South African, he tells the truth about 1000 is a real head twister, I could make 800 and 900 yard shots all day back in 89 thru 92 or 3 but add 100 yards and its a new game! :shake: I just wasn't sure about the 58 going home at 800 yards but if youv done it then they would of put you to work! The real clue to what was being shot at you was Norths guys talking about the sound of the Witworth comeing in a split second before it hit, it must of been a shrill "bone chilling" sound ...not knowing who it had been aimed at. Thanks for the help. :hatsoff: Fred

 

[ResearchPress]

I understand the Enfield load is supposed to go through 6 1" pine boards at 1,000 yrds.

Do you have any more information on this? I would be interested to know more as I have not been able to find any information to support it.

Penetration tests were carried out by the War Office in 1857 at Woolwich. In these and firing a .577 Enfield with a lead bullet at half inch green elm boards spaced one inch apart the bullet only penetrated 9 board and cracked the 10th when fired at a range of 200 yards. I would therefore anticipate a significant reduction in penetration at 1000 yards.

Test reports from the US in 1855 at Springfield include some other information on penetration. Firing at 1000 yards and at seasoned white pine boards one inch think and placed one and half inches apart a .60 cal penetrated none and a .54 cal penetrated 3.

David

 

[ResearchPress]

I saw a pic of a 3 band 58 cal ....

BTW, I didn't say, but all my shooting above was with an original Birmingham made 'Enfield', dated 1866. It is close to the Pattern 1860 Short Rifle; ie. 'two-band', 33" heavy barrel; 5 groove rifling; 1 in 48 twist.

David

 

[JackAubrey]

As a matter of curiosity gentlemen,Are these Enfields James River Armoury guns,Armisports,Euroarms?Are they stock or have they been glass bedded and tuned.I have an Armisport I reenacted with and shooting it is like throwing ones self at the ground and missing.I will have to completely re barrel,glass bed and god knows what else to be able to hit anything with it. Best Regards,J.A.

 

[ResearchPress]

As stated in my last message, mine is an original rifle from 1866. It has no glass bedding, nor would I ever consider it for this rifle or a modern reproduction.

David

 

[paulvallandigham]

Come on, David, tell how they DID bed those barrels back when!!! :hmm:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That's an easy one. They were assembled by craftsmen to fine Victorian standards--no bedding required! :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Actually, David told us in an earlier post about 18th century guns being " bedded" with layers of paper and varnish or lacquer. It still works. Its a technique that was used by boat builders to seal wooden boats. You can still bed replicas and originals that way today, and meet international standards, when using epoxy resin bedding compounds fail those standards.

But you are correct: When labor was so cheap back in those days, they could afford to hire master carvers to bed the wood correctly with just chisels and scrapers.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've been around wooden boats of all types and sizes and ages and I've helped build and rebuild a number of them and I've never heard of using paper to bed anything on a boat. Occasionally paint soaked cloth or canvas was used and in small craft cotton string was laid in the laps, but never paper.

I was referring to rifle-muskets in my post. It hadn't occurred to me that they would go to the trouble of bedding a soldier's weapon or that it would even have been considered necessary. I figured that any rifle-musket that didn't meet accuracy parameters would have simply been rejected.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you go back and read what I said carefully, you will read,

" Its a technique that was used by boat builders to seal wooden boats". I never said they use Paper in covering a boat. I talked about the technique.

The Old Town Canoe has been make with canvas, coated in a white lead paint compound, which when dried seals the canvas and the underlying wood. That canoe has been made for more than 150 years.

More recently, " Stripper " canoes are made with light weight cedar strakes, covered with fiberglass cloth, and sealed using epoxy resin. It produces a lighter weight canoe than the Old Town Canoe, and has the advantage of sealing the wood between layers of epoxy that make the canoe waterproof, and allows it to float even when filled with water. ( due to the displacement of water by the cedar strakes trapped between the layers of epoxy).

Extra pieces of canvas, or fiberglass cloth are used to strengthen areas of the keel and bow where the ( Old Town)boat is likely to strike rocks, or run over gravel bottoms. Stripper canoes are layered with epoxy. The canvas canoe was layered in canvas, and " glued " in place with more of the lead paint. Alternatively, the Old Town canoes had heavy metal cleets and rails attached to the bow, and to the keel and bottom of the boat to protect the boat from abrasion on rocks, and gravel.

The same kind of metal rail system can often be found on the earlier Adirondack Guide boats, and even earlier designed ocean rowboats made with lapstrakes, and pitch, that were run up onto gravel or coarse sand beaches.

Pitch was used by American Indians and settlers to glue layered patches on birchbark canoes. The patches would eventually be sewn on the cover using Spruce roots, which in turn would be sealed with pine pitch.

The techique involves adding wood to wood, and how it is done is not unique. For original rifles to be used in International competition, they cannot be re-bedded using epoxies, but they can be re-bedded using paper or cardboard, and any kind of sealer. Varnish is the most popular, simply because its been around so long, But Shellac, and lacquer have also been used.

These are wood working problems, and wood workers borrowed solutions from other wood workers, no matter what those other wood worker were making, or doing. My reference to boat builders was nothing more than a simple note that these ideas are not unique to gun makers, but were being used in other wood working industries, whenever needed. :hatsoff:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Nothing you have written here is news to me--as I said, I've been around boats for a long time. Since I was a kid in fact. This is all basic stuff found in readily available books of an "introductory to boating nature".

If you read my post carefully, you will find that I made no mention of covering boats with paper, only bedding PARTS of boats with it, or rather the fact that I'd never heard of it. Can't imagine why anyone would want to do it either since better and time proven methods have been available and in use for hundreds of years. What is your reference for this? I called a friend who spent years building wooden boats and studying maritime and boat building history and he has never heard of such a thing either. One would have to be poverty stricken or a real cheapskate to use paper as a gasket instead of a little bit of cloth when building a boat. Perhaps he'd be in the market for a nice canoe gun? (Muzzleloading content added for topical relevancy) :v

 

[paulvallandigham]

I never mentioned using paper on a boat, either. You are beginning to be a boor, Russ. Enough.

 

[Jerry Coffee]

When I first started shooting my Armisport .577 P.53 Enfield, I was really suprised at the long range accuracy of the rifle musket. I first tried it out in a rural area in west Texas so I could become accustomed to the load I preferred and shooting the weapon. I noticed a deer on a hillside across relatively flat terrain. The rifle musket was loaded with 60 gr. of 3F GOEX BP, and a 460 gr. Moyer's (575213-OS) minie ball. I quickly took aim without adjusting the sight for elevation, and I just guessed at the trajectory. After I fired, I lowered the barrel to look and see if I could see where the bullet hit and in about three seconds, I saw dust kick up a few feet behind the deer.

A three second elapsed time of bullet travel indicates to me the range was about 700 or 800 yards. There was no brush to deflect the bullet travel between me and the target so it was an unimpaired shot.