How far should touch hole be from bottom on the pan ?

[jimhallam]

I hope that I am not trying to teach my Granny to suck eggs but ... ...

IF the top of the priming powder is ABOVE the flash hole then it will have to burn DOWN so that the flame reaches the hole. In like manner if the powder granules are large (or treated with a modifier, as Black Silver used to be) they will slow down ignition.
It MAY seem somewhat obvious, but often assumptions are made that people have read and understood what others have been saying. I am assuming that the bundhook does not have a "Patent Breech" -- i.e., a small chamber at bottom of the barrel -- - and also that if the fire channel flash hole is transverse that it not located too far forward, again causing poor ignition.

It took me some time to understand flintlocks -- and the effect of slow ignition (as opposed to misfires) is far worse with a pistol.. . or a long gun fired offhand. For serious target-shooting with a smoothbore flint all that you really have going for you is velocity - hence the large charges and tight ball/patch combinations.
That's why when I used to coach I recommended that the firer started with a RIFLED barrel, using a lighter charge and then focussing in getting good ignition, before moving to the smoothbore with its heavy recoil.
I hope that this helps, especially if the deer / bird is spooked by the flash --- as Revererd Forsyth discovered ;-)

 

[longcruise]

Old Brown Bess

An interesting photo all around.

 

[Timber Wolf]

Old Brown Bess

Old girl needs a little work I’m afraid.

 

[1971fx]

Found it in a long gun local gun shop the has been resurfaced with steel that sparks excellent I've never loaded it

 

[nchawkeye]

I prefer my touch holes high, enough so that when you close the frizzen, they are behind it, that way there is no way to get the fuse effect...

 

[M. De Land]

I hope that I am not trying to teach my Granny to suck eggs but ... ...

IF the top of the priming powder is ABOVE the flash hole then it will have to burn DOWN so that the flame reaches the hole. In like manner if the powder granules are large (or treated with a modifier, as Black Silver used to be) they will slow down ignition.
It MAY seem somewhat obvious, but often assumptions are made that people have read and understood what others have been saying. I am assuming that the bundhook does not have a "Patent Breech" -- i.e., a small chamber at bottom of the barrel -- - and also that if the fire channel flash hole is transverse that it not located too far forward, again causing poor ignition.

It took me some time to understand flintlocks -- and the effect of slow ignition (as opposed to misfires) is far worse with a pistol.. . or a long gun fired offhand. For serious target-shooting with a smoothbore flint all that you really have going for you is velocity - hence the large charges and tight ball/patch combinations.
That's why when I used to coach I recommended that the firer started with a RIFLED barrel, using a lighter charge and then focussing in getting good ignition, before moving to the smoothbore with its heavy recoil.
I hope that this helps, especially if the deer / bird is spooked by the flash --- as Revererd Forsyth discovered ;-)

I don't know but it seems the more I mess around with flint locks the idea that the flash hole can only work well in one position is becoming less fact and more fiction. Probably the sunset position is the most efficient in most cases but good ignition is effected by so many other things as well that I'm beginning to think it may be one of the lessor in the chain of factors in reliability importance.
In my opinion there are plenty of reliable flint guns out there that do not have the flash hole in the perfect sunset position and do not have a white lightning liner either for that matter.
Still , I must say, I always try to set my flash hole up in as close as I can to the position just because it seems to work.
I have had guns with the perfect flash hole position that were not reliable at all so it is not an end all be all.
I have come to believe that the **** and frizzen shape and position to one another, the arc swing and spring balance of both are far more important to reliability than is perfect flash hole positioning.
Another important factor in my opinion is a well fitting and snug **** bearing fit to the the lock plate. If this bearing fit is loose than the flint does not shear metal off the frizzen face in a consistent fashion.
Another opinion I believe that has great bearing on reliability is flint edge management. Since I have learned to knap my own flints I have been able to experiment with the various methods employed and have proven to myself at least that nothing can compare to a pressure flaked edge for spark production and longevity.
It looks to me like most folks halve the life of their flints by banging on the cutting edge with hammers and crude nippers that remove far more material than is needed to both sharpen and reinforce the cutting face. The trouble with most of these tools used is they actually set up fractures in the flint that were not there before the so called sharpening was preformed. You will notice it is quite difficult to maintain sharp crisp flint edge corners when beating on them with a percussor of some sort.

 

[toot]

Old Brown Bess

that sure is old!!!

 

[Snydly]

Seems that the experiment in the video only times the ignition of the pan. Doesn't address how fast it ignites the main charge. Am I missing something. Thought that was what the post was about.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Seems that the experiment in the video only times the ignition of the pan. Doesn't address how fast it ignites the main charge. Am I missing something. Thought that was what the post was about.

The parts 4,5,6 deal with how fast the charge is ignited:
https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-4-priming-powder-amount-by-weight/https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-5-timing-powder-locations-in-pan/https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-6-high-and-low-vent-experiments/
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Sidney Smith]

You're actual flash hole looks to be in the exact spot it should be, intersecting an imaginary line across the top flats of the pan. The countersink touching the bottom of the pan doesn't mean a thing.

As to how much powder to prime with, use what you think is enough, but just don't fill the pan so much that you completely cover the flash hole and can't close the frizzen. I've sometimes used a little too much in the pan and it still goes off lightning fast. Has a lot to do with your lock timing too. Powder is going to get into the flash hole I don't care how much or how little powder you use, especially if you're walking and hunting with the gun.

 

[kyron4]

What is the diameter of the touch hole? It look a bit big to me.

I think it's .070 " .

A 1/16" ( .062" ) pin goes in, but a 5/64" (.078") does not.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@kyron4, that diameter of a touch hole is a good size.

 

[david w]

I think it's .070 " .

A 1/16" ( .062" ) pin goes in, but a 5/64" (.078") does not.

Great! It looks bigger in the picture.

 

[DuncNZ]

I use a 3/64 th" ( 0.0465 " ) (1.2 mm) drill for my flash holes then slightly crown the outside Works for me .

 

[OldSmoky1967]

So I should be good ?

Looks ok to me. I would sand that touch hole liner flat and remove the screw slots if you can and polish that. But, will be ok if you don't, jut harder to clean.

 

[kyron4]

What is the diameter of the touch hole? It look a bit big to me.

I measured it today with a precision pin gage set from work, and the exact diameter is .0665" / 1.689mm . Seems like an odd size, but I'm sure there are +/- tolerances to the prints mean diameter.

 

[david w]

I measured it today with a precision pin gage set from work, and the exact diameter is .0665" / 1.689mm . Seems like an odd size, but I'm sure there are +/- tolerances to the prints mean diameter.

Pictures can be deceiving. Nothing wrong with .0665"

 

[DuncNZ]

Pictures can be deceiving. Nothing wrong with .0665"

Is that getting a bit near self priming ?

 

[Grenadier1758]

@kyron4, your measurement (0.0665) is consistent with a #51 number drill (0.0670") and that is a good size for a touch hole. Just a bit larger than 1/16" (0.062) and still small enough that the touch hole is not self priming.

In very simple terms the bottom edge of the touch hole should be just above the top of the powder in the pan.

 

[M. De Land]

This^. I have been surprised at times how well ignition is with just a dab of 4f that doesn’t look like enough. And a picked touch hole, wiped pan and frizzen, sharp well adjusted flint, etc., etc. The journey is the fun!

I've read a good flint gun will fire over 50 percent of the time without any priming powder in the pan. I've also read they will reliably fire upside down with a properly primed pan as well. Curiosity dictates that I've got to test these theories one of these days to find out for myself.