How I spent the afternoon .... iron handled folding knives

[ameling]

I just had to get out and ... tinker ... in the shop this afternoon. (instead of heating up the forge to torture some poor innocent iron) :wink:

So I made a couple more of those iron-handled clasp knives based on originals recovered from la Salle's ship la Belle which sank off the Texas coast in 1685. I've been trying to find a second or third source of documentation for the, but not much luck so far. I've only found ... references ... to similar ones being called and used down south as "tobacco" knives (cutting pug). And a few more of those ... references ... to them being Sailor's Knives - but nothing specific enough just yet.

The blades were chiseled/ground out of a large crosscut saw blade. The handle is a piece of 16 or 18 guage that I hammered into that U shape.

The only problem making these is that I want to KEEP every one of them. They just feel so good in my hands. But one's already spoken for, and probably the other as well. Oh, well. I guess I'll just have to do some more ... tinkering.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Roy]

:thumbsup: I like those :thumbsup:

 

[RickD]

Very nice

 

[peashooterJoe]

Mighty Fine Wrk and look like they would feel good in your hand.Thanks for sharing your work with us. PeashooterJoe..

 

[J.D.]

Nice work Mike. I assume that there are no backsprings?

I'm not a fan of friction folders, though I know they were common in the colonial period.

Can I assume that the amount of friction holding the blade open/closed can be adjusted by peening the pivot pin?

I'm not familiar with the artifacts recovered from the La Belle. Where did you find the photos or descriptions for those knives?

I'm not doubting your information, I'm just not aware of any information about the recovery of those artifacts.

Thanks for sharing,
J.D.

 

[ameling]

There is no spring. Only 3 parts - a blade, a U shaped iron handle, and a rivet pin. That's it. The only difference between these and the classic French clasp knife is that handle. So many of the others are made of wood or horn/antler.

There is a video and one or two books out about the la Belle, it's discover, and some of the conservation work. But very little has come out yet on the actual artifacts. Those edjumacated purfessers gots ta write up dem formal papers an git dem puublished furst! As with so many things, the people doing the archeological work have to do their full formal careful work on all the artifacts recovered, write up their papers/books, and get it all published before the rest of the "unwashed rabble" can see it all. Their future "livelihood" is at stake. You know, those academic credentials from publishing - which leads to pay raises and tenure - and to future research grants. The "machine" that is "academic research" has to be fed!

I conversed with a friend who knows some of the people who worked on the recovery starting back in 1997, and saw some of the conservation work. He described them to me - base upon the epoxy castings of the interior of the encrustation that built up around the box of original iron handled clasp knives. I made one up based upon his descriptions, and set pics to him for his critique. Basically he said they were good copies - except he said I made my copies waaaaay tooooo nice! He said the original knife makers weren't even trying to hide the fact that they were making cheap clasp knifes to trade to the Indians. And here I thought I had made them too crude! The handles on the originals were much thinner he said. Much more like the metal you get from tin bean or coffee cans! I made one handle up like that, but I just couldn't bring myself to put a blade in it.

Yes, they can fit the hand well. The people who have picked one up from me say the same thing. And they can be "tightened up" by tapping that rivet, or by tapping the handle a bit also. The hard part is making the slot in the handle open enough to be able to pull the blade out without too much trouble - but to also keep it from just flopping open. It's a bit of a delicate ... tap tap tap ... adjustment.

A fun project. You should try making one yourself.

Ah, the little ... toys ... we play with.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands


p.s. I picked up the one book. From a Watery Grave: The Discovery and Excavation of la Salle's Shipwreck, la Belle by Bruseth and Turner isbn 1-58544-347-6. It's a good general introduction type book. But only a few of the artifacts are shown. And none of the iron-handled clasp knives. But they do show one of the sailor's clasp knives - it's a straight tapering 6-sided iron handled knife. The handle is widest at the blade end, and tapers thinner towards the butt end. Kind of weird looking.

 

[longshot47]

PRETTY SLICK! :thumbsup:

 

[50cal.cliff]

I like the look of those! I know its not PC but I still like the idea of a lock on the blade. May date back to one closing on my fingers during use. :shake: Thank God I didn't know how to put a good edge on one back then! :redface: So minimal damage done.

 

[J.D.]

There is no spring. Only 3 parts - a blade, a U shaped iron handle, and a rivet pin. That's it. The only difference between these and the classic French clasp knife is that handle. So many of the others are made of wood or horn/antler.

I conversed with a friend who knows some of the people who worked on the recovery starting back in 1997, and saw some of the conservation work. He described them to me - base upon the epoxy castings of the interior of the encrustation that built up around the box of original iron handled clasp knives. I made one up based upon his descriptions, and set pics to him for his critique. Basically he said they were good copies - except he said I made my copies waaaaay tooooo nice! He said the original knife makers weren't even trying to hide the fact that they were making cheap clasp knifes to trade to the Indians. And here I thought I had made them too crude! The handles on the originals were much thinner he said. Much more like the metal you get from tin bean or coffee cans! I made one handle up like that, but I just couldn't bring myself to put a blade in it.

Yes, they can fit the hand well. The people who have picked one up from me say the same thing. And they can be "tightened up" by tapping that rivet, or by tapping the handle a bit also. The hard part is making the slot in the handle open enough to be able to pull the blade out without too much trouble - but to also keep it from just flopping open. It's a bit of a delicate ... tap tap tap ... adjustment.

A fun project. You should try making one yourself.

Ah, the little ... toys ... we play with.

p.s. I picked up the one book. From a Watery Grave: The Discovery and Excavation of la Salle's Shipwreck, la Belle by Bruseth and Turner isbn 1-58544-347-6. It's a good general introduction type book. But only a few of the artifacts are shown. And none of the iron-handled clasp knives. But they do show one of the sailor's clasp knives - it's a straight tapering 6-sided iron handled knife. The handle is widest at the blade end, and tapers thinner towards the butt end. Kind of weird looking.

That is interesting. I haven't done any knife work for a coupla years, so something like this would be a good project to get my feet wet again.
Thanks again,
J.D.