I know Hudson Bay put the HB and other trade marks on most of the Trade Silver items. I believe that's fact. On the knife I'd probably agree with you since I haven't seen on with just the Beaver tail and the HB mark, but I'm trying to see if there's a source to see where they placed it and not. The knife does have the aging to it. At the same time I bought that knife I bought a "Snake Brand" from Sheffield as well. I added Photo. I'd assume this knife to be from late 19th Century. Correct?
Thanks for the information! Honestly, I don't know much about trade silver. The medal in your last photo looks like the real thing, as near as I can tell. The crosses look a little suspect to me, but I'll freely admit I'm not an expert.
The "Snake Brand" trademark on cutlery was registered to Samuel Kitchin of Sheffield at least as early as the 1860's. That knife looks like a keeper to me. Crazy Crow sells a replica butcher knife with the Kitchin/Snake trademark, but it is not as ornate as that one. I have not handled the Crazy Crow knife and can't say whether it has the tapered tang that would be typical of old knives. From the photos on the Crazy Crow website, it looks like a decent reproduction of a plain trade butcher.
My comments in post #32 are based on my amateur research. I bought an old butcher knife some years ago that has "HB" faintly impressed in the wooden handle, and only later discovered that the HBC did not do that. I've tried to pick up what I could, but I'm always open to learning something new, or even changing an opinion if there is solid evidence.
I don't know of a serious, organized study of cutlery sold or traded by the HBC. By way of analogy, trade
guns are another matter. In Gooding's
Trade Guns of the Hudson's Bay Company, he shows a full page of fine print listing the gunmakers, who normally put their own name on each gun's lockplate. The "sitting fox" stamp on the lockplate was the mark of the Hudson's Bay Company View Master, and typically had his initials, such as
E.B., for Edward Bond. As far as I know, they did not put "HB" or HBC" on the guns. I don't believe the knives sold by the HBC had an official View Master's mark or an HB or HBC stamp, but only the maker's mark.
The knife in post #30 looks like an old Rochebury ("roach belly") knife, but I can't say how old. I have a rusty old butcher knife blade, sans handle, that looks like a fur trade relic, but I can tell you for a fact it dates from the mid 20th century. My dear mother never accepted the fact that carbon steel knives with wood handles should not be left soaking in dishwater. I eventually replaced the handle, sometime in the early seventies, and just a few years later found my wife treated knives the same way, and handle #2 eventually broke off. I've learned that if you really want to hasten the artificial aging of a new trade knife, just sharpen it up and leave it in your kitchen. No matter what happens, don't say or do anything. Just try not to watch, give it a month or two, and your knife will look like a relic. The point being that knives that are heavily used or abused can age rather quickly, and the beaver trademark with the HB on that knife looks suspect to me, anyhow.
You might enjoy browsing through this document:
Trademarks on Base-Metal Tableware, by Eileen Woodhead. Clicking that link will open a 347 page book which has been digitized in PDF so you can read it online for free. My computer firewall has no issues with this document so I believe it is safe. Both Samuel and Thomas Kitchin are listed in there, with their trademarks. They show three trademarks featuring beavers (Marsh, Maxfield, and Sherwood), but none like the mark on your knife. Interestingly, they do list an
H.B.Co. trademark, but it was registered to Hall, Boardman & Co. of New York and Philadelphia:
So, I believe all of this to be factual and accurate, if incomplete. I would welcome more information on HBC trade cutlery, and would certainly be open to learning about trade silver, about which I know almost nothing. Good luck in your quest, and please let us know what you find.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
