How long does it take you between your first to second shot?

[Rockrivr1]

As I posted in a different thread, last Saturday was my first attempt at shooting my BP Flintlock. In actuality it was my first attempt at shoot a BP anything. Because of that I was going REAL slow between shots and even then I still managed to load a RP and patch without loading the powder first. I would say it was close to 10 minutes or more in-between shots when I was doing it right.

As I was reloading, I was wondering how fast shooters back in the day of flintlocks took in between shots if they were really pushing to get the next shot off. I was thinking 2-3 a minute tops.

I'm years away from every trying this myself, but if you were trying to be fast, how long do you think it would take you to do an accurate follow up shot once you fire your first shot?

 

[rabjr]

About 40 seconds. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

There are Safe fast ways to load a MLer, and fire fast, about 2-3 shots a minute, and then there are UNSAFE ways to load a MLER and fire faster- 5-6 rounds per minute.

Take your time, and learn to do it right, and do it safely. You aren't fighting Indians, or bad guys. If you want to fire fast, shoot a semi-auto .22 rifle or handgun. Its cheaper to shoot, and you can get off a lot more rounds fast than with just about anyhting else you can shoot( paint ball guns comes to mind, too.) Don't feel embarrassed about wanting to shoot a lot some days. We all do, and sometimes its just fun to go " crazy" at the range, with a high capacity magazine, and lots of ammo.

Muzzle loading is a deliberate sport, a " Gentleman's " Game, if you will. Taking your time to load correctly is going to be slower. When you learn where to put all the components, what to do with each, and how to load them using a short starter, for instance, and how to clean the gun properly so you have a gun that is in roughly the same condition for each shot, Your speed will increase. But for now, everything is new, and it will take time for you to get it all together. If you can shoot with other MLers, watch them and their loading techniques. Ask questions, but not when they are in the middle of loading. Find out why they are doing something, or NOT doing something you are doing. Ask about choice of bullets, patches, lubes, caps, etc. Everything is important.

Do yourself a favor and order a copy of Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System. Its the best $15.00 you will spend on your education, and you will learn how to read your targets, and your spent patches.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

This might just be the single best source of help for new shooters I have found in over 33 years of looking, and experience as a shooter. These are reference sources, so put them in a binder, and save them to read over and over again. You will find that you learn more each time you read the materials. As you gain experience, the value of all that you read begins to sink in.

Welcome to the forums. Best Wishes shooting. Glad to see you have joined the Honorable Society of Dry-Ballers. Most of us have joined that organizationi several times, and expect to rejoin it again, even after all these years. You are now part of a very humble organization, but also a group of very proud men, who are all smiling at the prospect of greeting you. :grin: :rotf: :hatsoff:

 

[54mountain]

I agree with swampy about 40 sec, once you get your pattern down and learn to do everything automaticly you will get faster.

I have read somewhere that a good infantry man was expected to get off 3 shots a minute.

take your time and learn to do it right, this ain't no race. :thumbsup:

 

[Zoar]

Rock--To answer your question: I estimate about 20-25 seconds and that is doing it fast and safely and to a target, not just blasting out the second shot. Yet I understand you ask it primarily from a curiosity stand point. Like anything in life, practice and familiarity. The first few times doing almost anything are awkward. Extra attention and time should to be expected, and practiced. And, as sagely advised, ML is typically not about speed. However, that said, I know I would like to know how fast I could safely load a second shot in the event THAT is what I needed to do. It is similar to the fact I actually practice how fast I can shoot both shots of my double rifle into a 2.5 inch bullseye target. Will I ever need this? Maybe yes and maybe no but I think it is good for me to know what I can safely and accurate do with my guns. Of course I didn't start practicing speed anything until I had many, many rounds through the gun(s) the slow deliberate way.

 

[sundog]

I think 40 seconds is a good estimate for me. Recently at the range I was shooting at a buffalo target with my 1803 Harpers Ferry replica flintlock and wanted to see how fast I could get off 3 shots at the target. Going fast is a break in the routine I use when loading and I paid a price for it.
I loaded the second shot dry ball(load a ball and patch without adding powdetr first), I was goin fast all right. Failing to add powder is a real short cut time wise.
Wound up taking about 15 minutes it did to extract the ball and then load and fire.

 

[hawk]

...if you learn to do it right there's no need for a second shot!

 

[Johnny Tremain]

By the numbers.

Learn to count the steps. That way even if you are interupted during loading you can remember where you stopped.

Afer 1-2 years of loading by the numbers, you will be the fastest loader on the trail.

Ive been loading flinters for many years now, and have never fogrot to do anything.

A few years ago, so of my friends had a gal drop her top, while I was loading, trying to get me to mess up. Clack, boom, and a nice flash to boot!

 

[mykeal]

Am I allowed to shoot the ramrod along with the ball? I'm much faster if I leave the rod in the muzzle...

To be honest, I don't really know. It seems like about a minute to 75 seconds usually, but I've never tried to time it or do it as fast as I could.

Like good offhand pistol shooting, reloading is a muscle memory thing: your hands and arms just go where the stuff is in the right order without even thinking about it. That said, it obviously helps to be organized and always keep things in the same place every time out. What's the best place to put stuff? That's where you watch the good old boys and see how they do it.

 

[Rogue River]

Shot yourself in the boot? :grin:

 

[Marlan]

The '3 shots per minute' was for battle. Utilizing the 1764 Drill, I've done so myself. However, in order to get those three shots, you are sacrifycing something...namely accuracy. In Colonial times, the military generally used VERY undersized balls (for the fouling issue), smoothbore muskets, paper cartridges, and a manual of arms that, in most cases, did not include the word 'aim'. As long as you were shoulder to shoulder with other soldiers using the same method, you could throw a wall of lead in the general direction of your enemy, and if your side could do that faster (and with discipline) than the enemy, then so much the better.

For our purposes nowdays? Practice a 'smooth' reloading routine, with no wasted motion. Don't worry about speed, just worry about doing it right, and doing it right CONSISTENTLY. If you do that, the speed issue will take care of itself.

 

[rice1817]

IF you don't mind carrying lead balls around in your mouth, IF you don't mind risking having a powder horn blowup by dumping an unkown charge of powder down the barrel and spitting an unpatched ball down the barrel after it, IF you don't mind thumping the buttstock hard onto the ground to settle the ball and have the pan self-prime from an oversized touchhole, you may be able to get off 6 rounds a minute on the dead run like Lewis Whetzel was alleged to have done. Of course, failure to load in this manner would result in a slow, painful death, so in that situation, might as well go for speed!

Seriously, though, with modern, safe loading procedures, 2 shots a minute would be pretty good. You can speed that up by using a loading block, and maybe carrying paper powder cartridges in your bag to eliminate measuring, but if you find yourself in a combat situation with a muzzleloader where speed of loading is critical, then your are probably running with the wrong crowd.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Using a loading block and not putting the stopper back into the horn until I prime, I can get two good aimed shots off in a minute. At Friendship we have a few timed matches where your time breaks the ties. Loading fast also helps in a Seneca Run. Of course I am talking rifles and aimed fire not inaccurate smoothbore muskets.
:thumbsup:

 

[brubincam]

-----how long does it take to pass a lead ball if swallowed? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Bill Bryan]

At our club shoots we get 20 minutes to make 5 aimed shots at 25, 50 and 100 yards. Many of the shooters can shoot 2 relays in that amount of time. Even after 2 relays there is still plenty of time for clean up and gun maintenance. Most of these folks are very experienced shooters. Less than one minute between acurately loaded and aimed shoots is easily possible.

 

[nchawkeye]

"Back in the Day???"...

Depends...How many Injuns are we talking???? :rotf:

 

[Toomuch_36]

With a rifle and patched round ball in a speed timed event 30 to 40 seconds is usually the norm.

With a smooth bore and military drill loading bare ball and not raming (taping the but on the ground to seat the ball) 3 to 4 shots per minute is often possible.

Shoot Flint
...........
Toomuch

 

[tg]

With loose balls and square precut patches in the bottom of the bag and a horn and measure hung properly and primeing from the same horn I can load my fusil for the second in 20 seconds, this is with a wooded rammer and a not real tight patch.but good enough to shoot paperplate sized targets of enemies at 50 yds.,it is best to get the routine down where you can do it in ypur sleep then go for speed, I have a twisted synthetic ramrod, memories of trickling powder in the vent to get the ball out, gun goesd bang/no ball gomes out of barrel, the usual learning curve stuff as we speed our loading rate and sharpen focus.I could load a rifle aboyt as fast but a bit slower as the combo was tighter and I did not take the ball down in one or two swipes.

 

[J.D.]

I have fired a coupla matches that require five well aimed shots within 4 1/2 minutes. I usually have time left over. Never timed myself though.

I wouldn't worry about how long it takes to reload, just think about how much fun you are having.

 

[Halftail]

Rockrivr1,
In a hunting situation I can re-load by instinct.Really fast too,I might add.However I have my Patched balls in a ball block and pre-measured charges,and a capper.Everything within easy reach.
One while on a remote hunt with 2 other guys,we were standing on a ridge overlooking a lowland Draw.A buck appears and buddy#1 takes his shot,Deer keeps on truckin.Buddy#2 takes his shot,deer keeps on truckin.So I take my shot,Deer keeps on truckin.
He's hit so we take after him to see where he's going all the while I reloaded while on the move.We found the deer hit and thrashing around,to make a long story short I ended up shooting that deer over cause I was the only one of the 3 of us that was loaded up again.All those events took place in a very short time,like probably less than a minute.