How many offhand shots before back pain?

[mmb617]

Thanks to all who responded with your experiences and ideas. I'm trying to get a feel for how to minimize the problem. I do understand that as we age some changes are inevitable. I see that in the gym where 1990 was my best year lifting and it's been a slow downhill slide ever since. But I keep plugging away. I've always thought of myself as having a strong back since the deadlift was always my best of the three powerlifts, so I'm somewhat surprised that my back would bother me just over holding a rifle. The heaviest BP rifle I have only weighs 8 lbs.

Maybe I just need to sit and rest my back a bit periodically during a range session. The pavilion where I used to shoot at the club was set up for bench shooting so I'd often take a seat and rest between shots. I'd still walk out front and shoot offhand but I'd have a breather between shots. Then last year they built a new pavilion dedicated to black powder shooters and it has no seats, so I don't sit down the whole time I'm there. If I'm there for a couple hours I'm standing, loading, walking and shooting without ever sitting, maybe I just need a break now and then. To that end I think I'll take a folding chair next time and sit out a bit now and then and see if that makes a difference.

I'm kind of funny about not wanting to take even OTC drugs or pain relievers. That probably stems from years of lifting in meets that were drug tested and knowing that even some OTC drugs were on the prohibited list.

 

[doubleset]

I investigated the voltarin and it says to use on joints only on the box. I guess it's not for muscular lower back pain.

I don't have the box any longer, but on the tube itself and on the Voltarin web site I don't see any reference to Voltarin being used ONLY for arthritis. It was originally developed with arthritis treatment being the primary (marketing) target.

If you are interested in it, you should ASK YOUR DOCTOR about using it. If you don't have a regular doctor, then ASK YOUR PHARMACIST regarding appropriate uses. Some useful guidance may be found on such sites as the WebMD site for Voltaren Gel. But again, you should ASK YOUR DOCTOR or ASK YOUR PHARMACIST about ANY OTC pharmaceutical product you may be thinking of using in case it may have INTERACTIONS with any other drugs you are currently taking since these can be potentially dangerous. Just because something has been approved for OTC sales and you can buy it off the shelf doesn't mean that it is safe for YOU to take along with OTHER meds you are taking.

 

[doubleset]

Glucosamine condroitin with all the extras helps. It takes at least a week to start noticing the effect but it can help with joint pain.

I'm a fan of Glucosamine Controitin as well, even though I think human studies haven't shown clearly defined benefits -- although that CAN be simply a consequence of the number and type of studies done. There is a lengthy history in veterinary medicine (horses and dogs in particular) of the use of glucosamine condroitin, including formal studies. In my own (anecdotal) personal experience, it does have a beneficial effect, though not possible to quantify. And any benefit requires consistent and uniform use -- not just taking it "now and then" when you think you might need "something".

Best thing is it doesn't fry your liver like ibuprofen.

Ibuprofen doesn't fry your liver, and rarely has effects on it. It has other potentially unfortunate effects. I believe you're thinking of acetaminophen (Tylenol), which CAN "fry your liver" -- and which people should be MUCH more careful with than they typically are, especially in the context of alcohol use.

 

[jim mencken]

77 and about 20 shots does me in

 

[mushka]

I use glucosamine and condroitin with msm, whatever that is. My arthritis doc also put me on hydroxychloroquine. It's an arthritis med also. Maybe that's why I'm not bothered by the covid or other stuff going around.

 

[Relic shooter]

Great hearing input from fellow vintage shooters with similar issues.
I'm moving up on 80 in a couple months & have been an avid ML shooter & hunter for over 50 years but now after 3 past back surgeries & more collapsed vertebras now in my upper back I can only shoot my flint & perc. pistols on good days.
I will say that a few years back my lower back was so panful I could not walk. Being desperate I ventured into a Chiropractor who did Cold Laser treatments & walked out 30 min later 80% pain free. I would have continued but it seemed like this chiropractor would purposely re-injure me every other visit in order to keep me coming back every week.
Trying Cold Laser might be an option for you guys to consider... I ended up buying a Veterinary rated cold laser unit for $600 & it still offers decent & prompt pain relief for my wife & my joint & arthritis pain.
After considerable pain research options by my son I switched of Norco & Tramadol cold turkey after 25 years & went to Kratom three months ago with zero withdrawal side effects.
I can't say Kratom is more effective in pain relief but is as effective. At least now I don't get drug tested like a street druggie that does narcotics for grins & giggles.
Happy trails,
relic shooter

 

[rick1964]

58. Not much problems shooting. But the put up and tear down of my trade tent and fly does my back in. I’m a believer in aleve. 2 shots of dark rum and a Miller High life. Kind of a secret but I’ll share with y’all

 

[tenngun]

64, almost 65 and my backs crap. I abused it a lot when younger and paying for it now.
I take glucosamine condroitin daily. I also use a Tommy Copper shirt when about to put the strain on
Not noticed any extra pain from shooting, do try to use some sort of rest when possible

 

[Nor'Easter]

Another option is a D.O., Dr of Osteopathy. I've used several good ones and they are pretty amazing. I believe they are full on MDs, who then go on to osteopathic training. Think MD chiropracter. They don't all do osteopathic manipulation, but alot do. Chiropracters are limited to skeletal/structural manipulation. DO's bring the full Monty to the table. I have found the most effective ones to be homeopathic/whole person in their treatment approach, but they are not all of like mind. Some think and treat the same as any other competent Doc.

As an aside, my last Command Master Chief spent his entire 30yr career as an Independent Duty Corpsman. Went on to PA school after retirement (said it was a waste of $$$ as he already knew everything they covered). He told me once to NEVER go under the knife until every other option has been tried. That stuck with me!

 

[oldwood]

I have a potentially very painful illness due to my adrenal glands going on strike from 41 years of abuse in a very high stress job. Doc.says small dose of steroid and a couple other pills will fix the acute muscle pain. this cocktail of drugs is amazing used with 2000 mg. Tylenol. When I beat myself up with too much exercise , I can take up to 6000 mg. Tylenol on a temp. basis daily. Never had to take more than 3000 mg. Tylenol to get muscle pain to a livable level. Hospital surgery recovery rooms are using more Tylenol drips , these days , instead of Barbituates. Two things I personally can't touch , is Nsaids , and booze. I didn't think Tylenol worked very well until I had to depend on it.......................oldwood

 

[Nor'Easter]

My wife and I have been taking 2 Tylenol with 1 ibuprofen as needed for pain for awhile now. Seems to work quite well. I think they sell it combined like that now.

 

[Relic shooter]

Another option is a D.O., Dr of Osteopathy. I've used several good ones and they are pretty amazing. I believe they are full on MDs, who then go on to osteopathic training. Think MD chiropracter. They don't all do osteopathic manipulation, but alot do. Chiropracters are limited to skeletal/structural manipulation. DO's bring the full Monty to the table. I have found the most effective ones to be homeopathic/whole person in their treatment approach, but they are not all of like mind. Some think and treat the same as any other competent Doc.

As an aside, my last Command Master Chief spent his entire 30yr career as an Independent Duty Corpsman. Went on to PA school after retirement (said it was a waste of $$$ as he already knew everything they covered). He told me once to NEVER go under the knife until every other option has been tried. That stuck with me!

Thanks for the Osteopathy tip think i'll give one of those critters a try.
relic shooter

 

[hanshi]

Seriously! The very moment I decide to stand up for anything my back starts hurting. I'm only 75 but back problems came with the package when I was born.

 

[tenngun]

Back pain is Gods way of letting you know your still alive. One day you will wake up and go ‘wow my back doesn’t hurt… oh crap’

 

[Nor'Easter]

Thanks for the Osteopathy tip think i'll give one of those critters a try.
relic shooter

If and when you can find a good one you will be amazed. The best one I had ran a small clinic comprised of herself, an acupuncturist, and deep muscle message therapist. And she was not afraid of thinking outside the box. She was willing to explore all treatments for their effectiveness, Western Medicine, Eastern Medicine and Homeopathic. And it showed in her work. She had developed non-medicinal treatments for Adult ADD. was effectively treating my GERD and amazingly kids with autism. I saw some of the kids over the coarse of treatment and after a year you wouldn't even recognize them as the same kids. And just like now I'm sure some of her peers thought she was a quack. But treating human illness can not be pigeon holded. The scientific method is a useful tool, but not absolute. In every drug clinical trial there is always a small portion of the group who get the placebo who get well. So the mind is capable of thinking you well or thinking you into sickness. But because it is not repeatable it defies the scientic method. The good bad news is she's not here anymore, she's teaching in med school!

 

[Buckskinquin]

I'm 70 years old and in pretty good shape. I lift weights 3 times a week, something I've done for over 40 years. Most of my range sessions are 20-24 shots all offhand, and by the end of the session my back usually feels pretty tired but no big deal.

Yesterday I was doing some testing with two of my rifles and shot more than usual, taking 16 shots with each rifle. Towards the end my back started feeling tired but by the last shot is was feeling more painful than just tired. I hurt just walking up to retrieve my targets, but felt better in a few hours, enough that I was able to do my normal squat routine that evening.

I'm curious about how shooting offhand affects your back, especially maybe some guys who are my age or older. I guess it sort of raised the question of when will the time come that I'm restricted to bench shooting.

When at Territorials or local shoots, most rounds consist of 5 shots in 20 minutes at a given target. Then walking out to pull and post new targets. In events that require 10 shots you are given 2 successive rounds. Shooting 20-24 times without a break, I can see a sore back as an issue. I find the combination of shooting and walking to be an accumulative exhaustion that affects my legs more than my back. Try 5 shots in 20 minutes, take a break. I plan to sit and watch occasionally to rest this 72 year old body.

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

I'm 76, and thanks to Vietnam and Agent Orange, my back and hips are about toast. VA takes pretty good care of me - three MD's and two Neurologists, plus some Cardio guys (yeah, it got my heart also - blew out the bottom!).
I am OK with about 20 rounds, but greatly prefer firing from the table. And there is no way I can walk out and change targets. I make about 25 yards, and cannot move the hips due to the pain. Got holes in the spinal column, "Myelo Malachia".
Couple weeks ago I fell in TSC, landed with my butt on the corner of a shipping pallet. Upshot was, broke both the coccyx and the sacrum. My new pain doc (VA referral) repaired it surgically, operating mostly robotically (!). Instant relief of that pain, only had two small (.25 cal) holes in my back. I take a few synthetic opoids daily, but the main pain relief is from Gabapentin (Neurontin). That twice a day pill is a miracle worker, believe me.
So, I sit mostly when I shoot. Not too bad, when you get used to it. But, I do have three ML revolvers to shoot, but they are still all 3 virgins.
Started shooting ML's back in 1960 - the smell is apparently about as addictive as some of the stronger illegal drugs!

 

[tenngun]

Damn my eyes. Once we rode the thunderstorm and fought griz for fun
Now we sit around the virtual camp fire talking about our pains
How the mighty hath fallen… pass the Ben gay

 

[Nor'Easter]

I'm 76, and thanks to Vietnam and Agent Orange, my back and hips are about toast. VA takes pretty good care of me - three MD's and two Neurologists, plus some Cardio guys (yeah, it got my heart also - blew out the bottom!).
I am OK with about 20 rounds, but greatly prefer firing from the table. And there is no way I can walk out and change targets. I make about 25 yards, and cannot move the hips due to the pain. Got holes in the spinal column, "Myelo Malachia".
Couple weeks ago I fell in TSC, landed with my butt on the corner of a shipping pallet. Upshot was, broke both the coccyx and the sacrum. My new pain doc (VA referral) repaired it surgically, operating mostly robotically (!). Instant relief of that pain, only had two small (.25 cal) holes in my back. I take a few synthetic opoids daily, but the main pain relief is from Gabapentin (Neurontin). That twice a day pill is a miracle worker, believe me.
So, I sit mostly when I shoot. Not too bad, when you get used to it. But, I do have three ML revolvers to shoot, but they are still all 3 virgins.
Started shooting ML's back in 1960 - the smell is apparently about as addictive as some of the stronger illegal drugs!

Never know what to say in these type situations. "Thanks for your service" always sounds shallow to me, but I know most times it is sincere. It does stink when you end up being a science expiriment through nobody's fault. I have GWI (Gulf War Illness) from Gulf War 1. Deformed red blood cells, periodic anemia, chronic fatigue etc. Pretty well controlled with vitamins, minerials, and a couple of meds. Figure I am running about 80-90% of where I should be at 60. I can live with it. I'm glad the VA is there for you, they really do have some good Docs working there. And Gabapentin really is a miracle drug, the way it just targets nerve pain. Wish you well! NE

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I can get a good session in at the range before my back gets tired. Couple of hours or more so 20+ shots I guess. I'm never in much of a hurry. Jed Clampett is my role model so if he can do it, I can.