How many shots before a frizzen needs to be replaced?

[Collie]

How many shots can a flint lock take before the frizzen needs to be replaced or rehardened? I've never fired one enough for it to be a problem, but I've probably put 2k rounds through my Kibler SMR and am curious how long it will realistically last. My lock still functions flawlessly and sparks great.

 

[TDM]

With the proper geometry and quality that the Kibler locks have and proper flints and flint placement, I’d say about 10 times more than you’ve already shot it.

 

[Grenadier1758]

How many shots can a flint lock take before the frizzen needs to be replaced or rehardened? I've never fired one enough for it to be a problem, but I've probably put 2k rounds through my Kibler SMR and am curious how long it will realistically last. My lock still functions flawlessly and sparks great.

This is another of those questions that have a lot of dependencies that can alter the answers to the question. Is the frizzen properly hardened? Is it case hardened and how thin is the case? Is the frizzen through hardened and tempered? What is the geometry of the lock?

A properly hardened lock such as Collie's Kibler lock may last long enough for his grandchildren to be asking the question. The user just has to monitor the function of the lock and make that decision based on performance.

I 've seen locks with thin case hardening barely last a year or two. I've seen new lock kits that come with frizzens, tumblers and sears that need to be hardened when they are received as to be expected and noted in the kit instructions.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have a rifle with a Roller lock on it that was built in the early 70s, I am the third owner and was told the gun had abut 50K shots through it. The frizzen was thin when I got the gun but still sparked like crazy, after I had the gun for about 5 years, the frizzen broke off at a thin place, Mr. Roller put a new one on for me.

 

[Cruzatte]

How many shots can a flint lock take before the frizzen needs to be replaced or rehardened? I've never fired one enough for it to be a problem, but I've probably put 2k rounds through my Kibler SMR and am curious how long it will realistically last. My lock still functions flawlessly and sparks great.

You're probably going to be able to pass down that Kibler rifle to your great grandchildren before the frizzen needs to be rehardened or replaced

 

[Rifleman1776]

This is another of those questions that have a lot of dependencies

Amen, Bro. Some El Cheapos might need replacing after one shot. Some quality locks the frizzen will last lifetimes.

 

[IanH]

Ask the owl?

I don't worry too much about it, frizzens are considered consumable items like brake pads. All of them WILL wear out eventually.....although the time might be 200 years from now for some. If a replacement cannot be had, the frizzen can always be resoled.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Been shooting over 40 years most of that time in competition so I shot somewhere most every weekend plus practiced a couple time a week on average. I have never re hardened or replaced a frizzen. The eztra money you pay for quality parts pays for itself. A Kibler lock should be good through your grand children.

 

[FlinterNick]

Never …..frizzens usually need to be replaced when people sand them down too much. Even a case hardened frizzen should last a long time.

 

[Pablo232]

Like shoes, a worn out frizzen can easily be re-soled if a replacement is not readily available or one wants to keep the original. I have done a couple for self and friends.

on eBay I bought a clock spring of appropriate width and cut off a piece of appropriate length. A smear of JB Weld on the frizzen and the spring is clamped. I use three narrow nose vice grips to clamp the centre top and bottom till the JBW has cured then with the dremel take off excess spring material until profiled to the frizzen.

They are still throwing lovely sparks and if they do wear out a torch will melt the JBW, clean it up and repeat the process. Just remember where you put your clock spring!

 

[oldwood]

In a half century , using many guns , thousands of shots , only found one worn frizzen. It was on an old well used original small Siler lock. I replaced the frizzen , and continued to use the lock on a new build , with no problems.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

I have shot One of my own make Flint guns (1964) and still use it occasionally. It's a bit like an old favourite hmmer. It's had 3 new heads and 5 new handles. The steel has been refaced twice in almost 60 years of heavy use. That is 3 faces from new. I re-face with CS70 spring steel that is silver solder in place.and quenched into cold water from silver soldering temp. Later steels I have made I make about .020" over size apartfrom the working face which is made as finished. It's then deep cased,without quenshing. Finsh the Whole back to fit and then Charcoal harden. You are left with a .020" Hard face. Never counted number of strikes but at the amount of clays and game it has harvested must be a hell of a lot... O.D.

 

[FlinterNick]

Like shoes, a worn out frizzen can easily be re-soled if a replacement is not readily available or one wants to keep the original. I have done a couple for self and friends.

on eBay I bought a clock spring of appropriate width and cut off a piece of appropriate length. A smear of JB Weld on the frizzen and the spring is clamped. I use three narrow nose vice grips to clamp the centre top and bottom till the JBW has cured then with the dremel take off excess spring material until profiled to the frizzen.

They are still throwing lovely sparks and if they do wear out a torch will melt the JBW, clean it up and repeat the process. Just remember where you put your clock spring!

Why not just weld on a new sole ? Do it the right way instead of gluing it on

 

[Pablo232]

Why not just weld on a new sole ? Do it the right way instead of gluing it on

Unfortunately I do not have welding facilities, nor the skill and finding a welder to do the job properly is problematic where I.am.

JBW may not be traditional, but it is a method that works and is readily available to me. There are many ways to crack a nut.

 

[ZUG]

Unfortunately I do not have welding facilities, nor the skill and finding a welder to do the job properly is problematic where I.am.

JBW may not be traditional, but it is a method that works and is readily available to me. There are many ways to crack a nut.

Modern epoxies are surprisingly strong and will do a grand job if the surfaces are prepared correctly. You have to match the epoxy to the job at hand otherwise you are wasting your time and money.

 

[IanH]

The sole can be tempered, shaped, hardened, and draw to exactly the correct temper before installation if you use epoxy. Even a 400-ish degree silver-bearing solder is going to risk drawing the temper of the shoe too much when applied, though this is probably a more traditional way of doing it. I read somewhere of brazing on the new sole and immediately quenching the whole frizzen, it seems that brazing temperature is a little higher than that needed to harden the frizzen fully. The temperature needed to draw back the cover and toe and to draw the sole (if required) is nowhere near the melt point of brass, so no danger of loosening the sole during those operations. It might have been Dave Person who wrote of doing this. Me, I'll just save the trouble and use a steel-filled, structural epoxy.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Your frizzen probably does not have a soft core because it is made of high carbon steel and mostly hardened all the way through. It won't stop sparking until you wear away all the steel from one side to the other.

dave

 

[FlinterNick]

The sole can be tempered, shaped, hardened, and draw to exactly the correct temper before installation if you use epoxy. Even a 400-ish degree silver-bearing solder is going to risk drawing the temper of the shoe too much when applied, though this is probably a more traditional way of doing it. I read somewhere of brazing on the new sole and immediately quenching the whole frizzen, it seems that brazing temperature is a little higher than that needed to harden the frizzen fully. The temperature needed to draw back the cover and toe and to draw the sole (if required) is nowhere near the melt point of brass, so no danger of loosening the sole during those operations. It might have been Dave Person who wrote of doing this. Me, I'll just save the trouble and use a steel-filled, structural epoxy.

It depends on the material using to braze, if you’re using silicone bronze to braze, it won’t melt at 400-600 degrees, its melting point is over 1500 degrees. Bernzomatic bronze welding rods have a flux coating and can be brazed on to carbon steel with a propane torch and MAPP gas. Silicone brozne MIG and TIG wire accomplishing the same thing at lower amp ranges for delicate welding projects.

If you’re attempting to solder on a frizzen sole with a high tensile structural solder with a 50/50 ratio or even more silver would be ideal and would be able to hold through a tempering if its kept below 1000 F. It’s often called brazing solder. But a weaker solder can get the job done just as easily.

https://www.muggyweld.com/product/s...D3n8jNbLo2glG2IxmnBg2E1Da7pl9FGxoCf9kQAvD_BwE

 

[GREENSWLDE]

It depends on the material using to braze, if you’re using silicone bronze to braze, it won’t melt at 400-600 degrees, its melting point is over 1500 degrees. Bernzomatic bronze welding rods have a flux coating and can be brazed on to carbon steel with a propane torch and MAPP gas. Silicone brozne MIG and TIG wire accomplishing the same thing at lower amp ranges for delicate welding projects.

If you’re attempting to solder on a frizzen sole with a high tensile structural solder with a 50/50 ratio or even more silver would be ideal and would be able to hold through a tempering if its kept below 1000 F. It’s often called brazing solder. But a weaker solder can get the job done just as easily.

https://www.muggyweld.com/product/s...D3n8jNbLo2glG2IxmnBg2E1Da7pl9FGxoCf9kQAvD_BwE

Hey Nick, Unfortunately Cadmium Silver

solders are not legal in Europe due to Carsanoma risks.As non CAD solders are higher melt point they are better. As for castings I believe most Repro castings are EN8 or equivalent. A medium carbon steel that will thru' harden making tempering nessesary after re hardening from brazing temps giving a softer face and quicker wear. Glueing is O.K. if the fit is perfect but it is always hard if the thin steel Sole distorts on hardening. As for temps. please remember Europe uses Cetegrade not Farenhite. C=5/9ths -32..F. O.D.

 

[FlinterNick]

Hey Nick, Unfortunately Cadmium Silver

solders are not legal in Europe due to Carsanoma risks.As non CAD solders are higher melt point they are better. As for castings I believe most Repro castings are EN8 or equivalent. A medium carbon steel that will thru' harden making tempering nessesary after re hardening from brazing temps giving a softer face and quicker wear. Glueing is O.K. if the fit is perfect but it is always hard if the thin steel Sole distorts on hardening. As for temps. please remember Europe uses Cetegrade not Farenhite. C=5/9ths -32..F. O.D.

Your math seems pretty decent, I think I’ll stick with farenhite.