• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

How many shots out of a rifled barrel?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
655
Reaction score
21
Location
Wilrijk - Belgium
Hi there the camp! :hatsoff:
Shooting a rifled flint lock gun .... I now have over 3.000 shots with it ... :grin:
Just wondering ... How many shots you get out of such a gun before the barrel is worn out???? :hmm:
May be a stupid question but I am just curious...
Any one an idea on this????
Tx a heap for your input on this! :bow:
 
This may instigate a riot, but I know one person who continues to set records with a barrel that is in excess of 20,000. For those who doubt, rabbit03 will attest to the barrel.

I shot next to a person in June who is shooting a barrel from the early 1950s, it's still winning.

RDE
 
I don't know how you wear out a flintlock barrel shooting PRBs. The patching protects the ball from the steel, and the steel from the ball. Unless the bore is allowed to rust, often, I don't see how the barrel will wear out.

We do see guns that have not been cleaned properly, and have their grooves filled with caked on crud and burned grease. Some of these barrels look " slick" and owners mistakenly get rid of them because they think they shot them out. But, they are wrong. All the gun needs is a proper cleaning and its as good as new.

Some of our members pick up these bargain " barrels", or even the whole gun" for next to nothing, only to take the gun apart, give it a good cleaning, and take it out and shoot it just fine. Some good resale money has been made by some wise members here.
 
With proper cleaning and maintanance, you're unlikely to wear one out in your lifetime. More barrels have been damaged by crown wear due to improper cleaning than by wear. Shoot and enjoy. Don't sweat barrel life! :wink:
 
So when we hear that rifles of old were "freshened", is it because the steel/iron was of a lesser grade than today?
 
The foregoing goes against the notion that gunsmiths "freshed" barrels that were "shot out". Maybe that's just myth. Ned Roberts ("The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle") believed that with PRB, the patching was abrasive enough to wear out the barrel. Greased bullets could be shot indefinitely.
 
jr06 said:
The foregoing goes against the notion that gunsmiths "freshed" barrels that were "shot out". Maybe that's just myth. Ned Roberts ("The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle") believed that with PRB, the patching was abrasive enough to wear out the barrel. Greased bullets could be shot indefinitely.
It may be due to comparatively inferior metal used for barrels back then...doubt they were anything close to being like todays strong steel barrels
 
The older barrels were made of iron which in it self were fine, but they were softer than todays modern steel. Mostly this was due to the lower temps used to forge the iron. When the blast furnace was made which allowed for higher temps to heat the metal making them stronger. This is a general overview there is a little more to it than that.
 
Modern barrels are made of steel. The old ones were made of iron--often very soft. There are tales of barrels so soft that the flats were put on them with a draw knife. Freshing out an iron barrel is going to be necessary long before it will be required for a steel barrel.
 
It is not the number of shots, but the effectiveness of cleaning that wears out barrels. People are still shooting accurate origional rifles with both steel and some origional soft iron barrels. The reason for many references to "freshening" barrels was due to lack of regular cleaning. Remember many of the old time rifles were kept loaded and seldom cleaned.
 
I think some of those old barrels were also mistreated by their owners.

I'm not so sure that they all understood the need to clean their barrels after shooting to prevent rust and corrosion.

From the percussion guns of the past that I've seen there is abundant evidence that they didn't know about the corrosive nature of the percussion cap as the area of the barrel around the nipple is almost always pitted, usually very badly.
This leads me to believe that they didn't clean the exterior of the barrel often and if they didn't clean up the outside it follows that the bore would also be ignored.

Wrought Iron is more resistant to rust than steels are however the acids formed by the foulings deposits will readily attack it.

Ramrods can be covered with a lot of dirt and dust which is a great abrasive will wear out the muzzle although it is doubtful that it would affect the bore that much.

As was mentioned, dirty patching will also wear the rifling fairly quickly.

I couldn't find a good value for the hardness of Wrought Iron however it is much softer than any of the common steels. This softness was a large contributor to the bores of old guns wearing from any and all of the things I mentioned above.
 
My friend Lizard did a destruction test on rust in barrels. His contention was that the longhunters didn't clean their guns all that well because they were always shooting and he wanted to know what that would do to their barrels. So he built a gun that he called "Old Rustaway". He never cleaned the barrel unless it got too crudded up to get the ball to go down the barrel. He always used precut patches so whenever he bought a new bag of patches he kept the labels as a way of keeping count. Anyway after 40,000 shots he claims that the barrel started throwing wild shots about 1 out of 5 times. Now some people will say that there is no way that anyone could shoot that much, but he also used 120 pounds of powder in one year. He also won many matches with Old Rustaway and set a number of National records at Friendship.

So, can you shoot a barrel out, yes. Do you have to work it? You bet. Do you need to worry if you take good care of your gun? Not in my opinion. If you clean your gun after you come home after an event and scrub it out and oil it well the barrel should last your lifetime. If you are real persnickity about your barrel and clean after every shot, at the range and again when you get home, it will still last about as long.

Many Klatch
 
Roundball I have to agree with you on that one!Even with my own personal 300 yd range in the back yard I could never shoot that much. Must be spending too much time on deer stands, food plots, fishing, trapping, shooting archery, shooting trap, shooting skeet,shooting high power rifle and playing with the dog. Sure glad I'm retired I still seem to be pretty busy playing.
 
I know a top shooter at Friendship who shot 5 shots at his backyard range every day when he was working. He did it while Breakfast was getting ready, before going to work. Then he shot much more on weekends, either at his own range, or at various club shoots. I never asked him how much powder and lead he went through per month, week, or year, but it had to be many more times what I was shooting once or twice a month.

Like you, and Roundball, I am convinced that you can't shoot out a steel barrel unless you abuse it . It might lose some of its accuracy, as the story goes, but I am willing to bet that even those flyers would disappear again with a change of a component, or perhaps some re-crowning.

There is an article in a back issue of Gun Digest, by Hal Hartley, the stockmaker, who found his grandfathers old gun," 'Ol Yellow Jacket ", after years of searching to find who presently owned the gun. It was much abused, and rusted. The stock was broken, and the barrel's muzzle was definitely ruined. The hammer was broken off, and the owner's grandkids had been using the gun as a play toy.

He cut off a very short section of the crown( Pictured), then re-rifled( freshened) the barrelDecribing the making of the cutter, with pictures), and made a new RB mold. Then he restocked the rifle. The article had a 5 shot group that indicated that the gun was once again a tack driver. The only thing missing was a good picture of the gun as he bought it, but his description would make a grown man cry.

That is the first story I ever read about an abused muzzleloader, and I have kept that Gun Digest in my library ever since, just to have those details to remind me what can happen, and how. I believe the gunbarrel was made of iron, and not steel.

At the time I read the article, I was lusting after an old MLer that was in similar condition, that was owned by a friend of the family. I was too young to buy it without my father's okay, and he didn't want me spending money on anything other than my College plans. So, I never did get that gun. But the Hartley article gave me hope that if that old gun ever did land in my hands again, that someone, if not me, could restore it to shooting condition, and I would have a tremendous gun.

Oh, one thought about guys with modern, steel barrels. I have heard, from reliable sources, that some target shooters Lap their barrels every Night between shooting times. This only removes a few 10 thousandths of an inch off the lands, to " create a New, Sharp edge", but over time, this kind of thing is going to wear away the lands to the point where the barrel becomes slick. That is the only way I have heard ANYONE wearing " out " a modern steel barrel, and its certainly not caused by shooting a Patched Round Ball!

I suspect these barrels are put aside long before they get to that slick stage, because as the lands are reduced, the RB is no longer correctly sized to seal the gases with any sized patching. I have not heard of these " lappers " using larger diameter balls in these barrels as they wear down the lands. :hmm:
 
As mentioned in several posts, there are many barrels that have tens of thousands of rounds shot through them with little appreciable wear. IMHO, lack of good cleaning and maintenance is the primary cause of premature loss of accuracy.

Another cause of lost accuracy is using the yellow miracle lubes, and not getting it all out when cleaning. The result is a build up of paraffin wax in the bore that causes a loss of accuracy.

Good luck,
J.D.
 
Back
Top