How meticulously do you measure powder?

[Stumpkiller]

You cannot beat a English powder flask that has a measure that throws 2 to 3 drms of powder made by Dixon and Sons ,it gives you a constant load every time .
Feltwad

Provided you use the identical finger pad pressure to block the opening every time.

I have an old Hawksley.

 

[BrownBear]

My "problem" is that I have a bunch of different adjustable measures. And each one of them tosses a little different charge. That results in slightly different charges being thrown if I switch measures from one session to the next.

It used to concern me, but I gotta say I've never detected any change in accuracy or POI when moving between measures, telling me my guns at least are pretty forgiving.

One thing I've done to counter it, I used voodoo black magic to decide one of my adjustable measures would be my standard when making and calibrating my own measures. I just decided out of the blue sky to use it, so my home-built "90 grain" measures might actually be throwing 88 grains or 92 grains just like the adjustable used to calibrate them. Dudn't matter a whit to me, long as I use the same measure used when working up an accurate load. Given the forgiving nature of these smoke belchy things, I'm not sure at all that it makes a difference in accuracy, but I feel better doing it with the same measure all the time.

 

[Artificer]

not only doing everything the same each time, but making sure that as many other things are the same each time. I shot a lot of competition over the years, and I beat better shooters because I was more consistent.

We are saying the same thing, but in different ways, so I very much agree.

I do have to politely disagree with some folks on how one loads for hunting, but my disagreement may also be a matter of semantics.

I shoot from a bench or at least from the prone position to get the most accurate load and group size I can with the rifle. Then I take up other shooting positions; sitting, kneeling and offhand as well as "field supported" positions to see how tight of a group I can shoot at different ranges. If I cannot hold a group that way, that is smaller than the vital zone of the game I am hunting at different distances, I won't use those positions or just not shoot at those distances. IOW, it is not just how tight a group the rifle or gun is capable of shooting, but also how tight of a group I can shoot at different distances and by using field shooting positions.

I want my rifles and guns to shoot the tightest groups possible, even for hunting, because I know I or any other person is never as accurate when hunting as one is on the range in practice.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

IOW, it is not just how tight a group the rifle or gun is capable of shooting, but also how tight of a group I can shoot at different distances and by using field shooting positions.

That's it in a nutshell. I know all too many people who NEVER move away from the benchrest at the range, and consider their tight groups and perfect sighting at 100 yards makes them 100 yard shooters. Ha! :bull:

The only true measure of their shooting comes when they move away from the bench.

I more or less pick my hunting partners based upon how they shoot. I've cleaned up too many messes in the field behind the bench shooters, tracking down and dispatching their wounded game for them, or working hard to get them onto an animal, only to have them miss on too long a shot or miss completely at ridiculously close ranges.

Prospective new partners get to visit the range with me to "sight in" our guns. Meanwhile I'm checking out their safe handling habits and piling so much carp onto the benchrest that they can't possibly shoot from it.

Lotta guys get to stay home rather than hunt with me.

 

[Boomerang]

Meanwhile I'm checking out their safe handling habits and piling so much carp onto the benchrest that they can't possibly shoot from it.[/quote]

Why would they pile up fish on the shooting bench :grin:

 

[Artificer]

My Dad taught us three kids how to be safe when hunting and instilled in me the same thing about not hunting with those who were not safe and/or shoot at ranges they are not capable of hitting correctly. So I could not agree more. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

When my Dad and two other of his friends formed a Hunt Club here in Virginia, it was with this same demand of safety and it was put into the Club Rules from the very beginning. There have been a few members over the last almost five decades now that were held to task, or not allowed to join up the next year and one guy they threw out of the club. So we have never had a serious hunting accident in all those years and we still have more people wanting to join the club each year than the maximum membership allowable for the amount of land we rent the hunting rights on.

My first three rounds fired out of a Black Powder Rifle was at 100 yards and from the sitting position, while sitting on the frozen ground when it was 10 degrees above Zero. The group I shot measured about 1 5/8" by 1 3/4", so I knew I was capable of shooting at that distance on deer from that position.

Gus

 

[Billnpatti]

Black powder is pretty forgiving and not as finicky as smokeless when measuring it. The secret lies in being consistent in how you measure your powder. If you just pour it into you powder measure and level it off, that is fine, just do it the same way every time. On the other hand, if you jiggle your measure to settle the powder before leveling it off, do that the same every time. Consistency is the important factor.

 

[Col. Batguano]

That's an interesting observation. I know when I re-load smokeless powder cartridges I usually do it by volume with a powder measure. I keep my loads under maximum, so a couple of grains one way or another (with rifle cartridges)doesn't really. I know the charge weights vary to some degree though.

If you've used the same method with BP, have you checked a few of your thrown (volumetric) charges to see how much they vary?

And yes, I know. Smokeless is a progressively burning powder, and BP is not, so a couple of grains' difference in BP doesn't affect pressures nearly as much as it does with smokeless.

 

[Eterry]

I read an article called "The name of the game is The Same ". He said to be consistent. When you find a load that works, do it the same every time. Tap the measure twice every time, lean the rifle so the drum is downhill every time, cap it the same every time. It made a lot of sense.
its in the old Hornady smokeless manual.

I use volume, but try to be consistent.

Sounds too much like magical thinking to me. Consistency is good, slavish adherence to ritual is compulsion...

The examples were my own, and merely that... examples. The author, a well respected Schutzen competitor, spoke of repetition in everything possible. IIRC he used a Pope barreled Ballard in 38/55 and shot at 20 or 40 rods; shooting the center out of the target.

It is the attention to details that separates the amateur from the professional... in many things not just shooting.

 

[Black Hand]

It is the attention to details that separates the amateur from the professional... in many things not just shooting.

I would contend that paying attention to significant details is what separates one from the other. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions without knowing why and hoping that you magically get things right. Practice and familiarity with your firearm make far more difference than a few grains of powder...

 

[Artificer]

It is the attention to details that separates the amateur from the professional... in many things not just shooting.

I would contend that paying attention to significant details is what separates one from the other. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions without knowing why and hoping that you magically get things right. Practice and familiarity with your firearm make far more difference than a few grains of powder...

I agree with you in part, but only because the average shooter is not nearly as accurate as his/her rifle is. A person who can't hold the 8 ring of a target won't see the difference between a load that will shoot out the X Ring and a load that will only hold the 9 ring.

No matter how good or bad the individual is capable of shooting; for hunting it still boils down to being able to hold inside the vital area of game at whatever distance and shooting position he/she shoots.

Gus

 

[hanshi]

I don't take much time getting a precise amount of powder into a measure. I just dump it in and when the level reaches the top; I pour it down the bore. Generally, a few grains either way makes little difference. BP is a very forgiving propellant and isn't fussy like the smokeless kind. I eventually get around to weighing a measure full but if not, it doesn't matter in the least. Just because I know what each measure holds in weight - or don't know - is irrelevant.

 

[wpjson]

I don't think "meticulous" was a word back when they used these things regularily.

 

[tenngun]

That’s right. After all shooting is just basic Newton. X wt of ball at y trajaectory and v velocity will hit a spot at d distance every time. Only problem is Mother Nature never read newton, and she throws air temp wind elevation the time interval between when our mind says shoot and ball leaves muzzle.
Many want ten shot through one hole at a hundred yards. We can’t get that but we can always get closer then the last ten we shot.
Or not. In practical use as a hunting tool shooting a dime at a hundred yards is the same as a dinner plate at the same range.
Our ml today are kept as toys or hunting tools. We don’t call on them for defense, or modern milita work should the big eyed monsters from space or zombies show up.
Back in the old days measuring to 1/8 of a dram was about unheard of. A 1/4 or a 1/2 more likely. Gentleman carried powder testers and played with charges accordingly. Army chargers were listed in ranges that would near double.
It’s a primitive gun after all. Ball cast over a fire, cloth felt for thickness between thumb and forefinger greased with bear grease one day, spit the next sperm oil the day after, fine powder one day, ”˜coal dust’ the next.
Even the most traditional gun can be treated as a fine modern bench tool, the inspired looks like a old gun but fully modern can be treated sloppy. A ml will answers the call of what you expect from it.

 

[S.Kenton]

I mostly do trail walk style target shooting. All offhand. I use a powder measure I made from a deer antler tip. I fill it from a horn to the brim and call it good. If I over fill it I simply give it a flick to level it off. Works for me.

Same here... Cept I use an old brass measure. I win many woods walks and and paper punching events....nothing fancy, when ya find a method of loading and shooting( everyone does it a little different)..then stick with it, do everything the same over and over. If you make changes,make the changes in small increments. My two cents,

 

[Spikebuck]

I have a black powder 4 in 1 T loader off Amazon.

I love 4 in 1 loaders for deer hunting. I just keep a couple in an outside pocket. While I've never had to do a super-quick reload, I sure could with these since all the components are in that one loader, including the short starter. :thumbsup:

For measuring, however, I use a clear volume measure and it's worked well.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

"Hunting -good enough" loading will never carry over to fine accuracy. Match style loading will carry over to hunting.

And has been stated it is the groups shot at various distances. For that reason, I have markers at various distances from my hunting spots going out the shooting lanes. It may be just a rock or a slash on a tree. Generally out to 150 yds. However, I rarely shoot pure offhand when hunting. There is normally a tree to use as a rest. A big difference between eastern woodland and out west.

 

[S.Kenton]

Good point.... However, I have found a method of loading that works very well for me...and I stick with it. The same method gets me deer very year and wins woods walks and paper punching events at my local club.... It's not just "good enough hunting" nor " minute of deer" type of shooting. This method has been taught to me from various members of this site, including Dutch Shoultz, and has been influenced by many other good shooters whom I've been blessed to have known through out the years. A year or so a go at my local shoot, I entered a drawing to take shot at a small plastic yogurt bottle ( painted red)hanging from a string, at 100 yards ...offhand. I used my loading method. I hit it...off to the side a little and not square in the middle, but a hit nonetheless , that little feat won me 100$, bragging rights and got to keep the bottle....

 

[Okie Hog]

I know your suppose to kinda shake the powder container so the fine grains and large grains of powder don't separate and your volume is consistent.

Not really. The fine gent who introduced me to blackpowder shooting in the early 1960s was a renowned marksman. He filled his powder measure slightly over full and "struck it off" level with his finger. No shaking, no tamping, no nothing. i do the same thing today and it's very consistent.

 

[BrownBear]

Yeah. I'm betting if the settling was a potential issue, the simple act of tipping a horn or flask up and down to fill the measure would be all the shaking needed.