how much 4f

[ursarojo]

Finally got all the stuff together to shoot my first flint lock.

Weapon is a Brown Bess. My question is how much powder do you put in the pan. I made a flint primer (deer antler) and it will throw 3 grains. Is 3 the magic number or do you put more or less in for smaller locks? :hmm:

TIA for any info

Steve

 

[jtmattison]

3-4 grains should be enough. You can experiment to see what works best. I usually go for a pan that is 1/2 to 2/3 full.

HD

 

[Semisane]

This is how much FFg or FFFg GOEX I've been using in my .54 Great Plains with very good results. Seems to me that the FFg fires just as fast as the FFFg. A little is faster than a lot.

 

[rice1817]

Semisame is right. 2F or 3f priming works fine and has some advantages over 4f for that purpose. In fact, the original military loading procedure had the soldier biting off the tip of a paper cartridge and dumping a bit of the powder (2F) into the pan for priming. Although this is considered an unsafe loading practice today, it is not altogether different than priming from the main horn and the user soon gets the knack of how much to dispense, and it is a simple matter to flick overflow out of the pan wth a whisk or your finger tip.

 

[paulvallandigham]

You will need to experiment a bit. Some guns work best with the pan completely full and level with the top of the pan. Others work with just a couple of grains( by weight). Others require the priming powder be tipped away from the vent , so you use half or less of the pan full of powder. The location of the vent hole in relation to the pan often controls how much flash powder is required for good ignition.

Consider using he same powder you are using in the barrel, particularly when hunting, and shooting in damp weather of any kind. The larger sized granules will fire and burn just as quickly, and they are less likely to absorb moisture from the air. Many shooters routinely use FFFg powder to prime their flintlocks, because it is less likely to draw moisture, and they don't have to reprime their guns so often.

I use 4Fg powder to prime the gun when on a range; but use 2Fg to prime when hunting, because that is the powder that goes down the barrel, and I don't want to haul around two horns. I lost a priming horn once, and took two years to find one close enough in color, size, and shape to match my larger horn to complete the set again.

The priming horn does not go out in the woods anymore. In fact, I usually have pre-measured charges in tubes in my hunting bag, rather than carry my main horn, anymore. I also have a true antique horn that was given to me, and which I had restored, that dates back to the early 1800s. I don't want to risk losing it,either. I use it in the field with my smoothbores, because I have a huge leather game bag that I can put it in so not to lose it. It carries enough powder for hunting birds at a game preserve.

ALWAYS wipe clean the pan, and the underside of the frizzen, both sides of the flint, and around the vent hole in the barrel, so that the residue in those places does not draw moisture. Wipe the face of your frizzen where water can condense if the air temperature is between 32 degrees F. and 40 degrees F.

 

[Stumpkiller]

4F is (IMHO) unnecessary in a Bess. I used 2F for priming with my Bess and now use 3F in my .54 with good results. Won't hurt a bit to use it but it is added complication.

 

[Dphar]

Finally got all the stuff together to shoot my first flint lock.

Weapon is a Brown Bess. My question is how much powder do you put in the pan. I made a flint primer (deer antler) and it will throw 3 grains. Is 3 the magic number or do you put more or less in for smaller locks? :hmm:

TIA for any info

Steve

Full enough the pan cover does not compress the powder excessively.
So far as 2f as priming. I guess its OK but I was using some the other day and find its a lot slower than 4F.
Using very light priming charges has always created serious reliability issues, great increase in flashes in the pan in every gun I ever tried it in. No benefit that I have ever been able to find.
Gets worse as the wind speed increases.

Dan

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm going to have to speak from my regimental experience. That big lock on the Brown Bess throws a lot of sparks into the pan. It was meant to use the very coarse and at time poor musket grade powder so 2fg works fine. I do not notice any delay with my Loyalist Arms Bess or previously in my Pedersoli Bess. You will have a little more fouling build up in the pan, frizzen and flint so that will have to be wiped down every so often. Most of the Besses will have a faily large touch hole and that helps with reliable firing.

Most demonstrations with blank loads, I prime with powder from the cartridge. For loads with ball, I prime just before shooting from a small horn I carry in my pocket. That has the same powder that I use in my cartridges. None the less, 4f will work in the pan so you can use your priming horn.

 

[Coot]

If you shoot in high humidity, you will have more problems with 4f than with 2f or 3f. 4f absorbs moisture from the air pretty quickly. I would suggest that you try using the same granulation for priming as in your main load. You have a big lock that should throw a lot of sparks. As to amount, don't get hung up on a specific number of grains. Different locks with different vent sizes and locations are happy with different amounts. I like starting out with just enough prime to cover the bottom of the pan (maximum surface area for the sparks to land in the prime & minimum amount to have to burn down before the vent is exposed to flame) & then seeing if the gun is happy with that amount.

 

[mazo kid]

Three grains should be enough. You should only need as much powder as it takes to cover the bottom of the pan and maybe a tad more if your gun needs it to reliably fire.

 

[Zonie]

Pour slightly less powder than it takes to reach the bottom of the touch hole.
This is a case of "less works better" but IMO the majority of the bottom of the pan should have at least a powder grain's worth of thickness in depth.

If you are trying to duplicate the typical flintlock as seen on the movies fill it to the top.
Just kidding but it is a sure fire way to get the old click, whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh (count to 4) boom the movies usually show.

Those movies are the prime reason (no pun intended) folks think flinters are slow to fire. :grin:

 

[Cutfingers]

Since changing to FFF from FFFF in my pan I've gotten much better ignition. Sometimes a little and sometimes the pan is running over. No matter what the FFF ignites better. In the "heat of battle" who wants to use two horns? :haha: I now use the FFF in my pistol, 62 smoothbore and 45 cal rifle.

 

[Dphar]

I'm going to have to speak from my regimental experience. That big lock on the Brown Bess throws a lot of sparks into the pan. It was meant to use the very coarse and at time poor musket grade powder so 2fg works fine. I do not notice any delay with my Loyalist Arms Bess or previously in my Pedersoli Bess. You will have a little more fouling build up in the pan, frizzen and flint so that will have to be wiped down every so often. Most of the Besses will have a faily large touch hole and that helps with reliable firing.

Most demonstrations with blank loads, I prime with powder from the cartridge. For loads with ball, I prime just before shooting from a small horn I carry in my pocket. That has the same powder that I use in my cartridges. None the less, 4f will work in the pan so you can use your priming horn.

In my experience the BB is so slow that changing powder probably will not make a difference to the shooter. But finer powder does have faster flame propagation and faster heat build up so it will light the main charge faster. Tests prove this. I can tell a definite difference in speed from FFG to FFFFG in my reproduction Manton lock.
When shooting blanks what you prime with is unimportant so long as big grains of burning powder don't cause trouble as they fly around, and they do fly around more than FFFG or FFFFG based on high speed photography.
If the pan is clean and the powder good there will be no problem with humidity. Powder fouling is far more hygroscopic than powder. If you have fouling in contact with the powder in high humidity it may transfer water to the priming. So wipe the pan and pan cover clean.
Having used flintlocks in high humidity in my younger days I can say that the actual priming powder used makes little difference. Wet goopy fouling will attack any granulation. If the powder itself fails in a clean lock due to humidity then you have a powder quality problem, surely impure Potassium Nitrate. Good powder will not absorb moisture from the air.

Dan

 

[Many Klatch]

In my Bess I fill the pan with 2F and shoot. It seems to work well enough for me. My Bess has a very large touch hole and that helps a bunch with quick ignition. I load and prime from the same horn because I'm lazy and don't want to mess with two horns.

Many Klatch