How much powder in the pan?

[mark davidson]

I'm brand new to flint locks, shot my first one yesterday. What fun! I need to know how much powder to put in the pan. I have one of those little priming flask things that puts a small dab of powder out when you press the nose into the pan. Will one press get the job done or two or what? In grains about how many grains is ideal for a Siler (sp?) lock...two grains, three grains, etc... Should the powder come up to the bottom of the vent liner or half way up on it or what for the fastest ignition? A little help please??? Thanks in advance. Mark

 

[rabjr]

I found each gun to be different at what it likes. My two .54s which use the Davis 1803 lock, both like two plunges of the big brass primer. My Smoothie which uses the big Chambers Virginia lock is very happy with three plunges from the same primer.

 

[cptleo1]

One push with the springy thing should dispense about 3gr which is right for most flinters.

3gr is about 1/2 of the pan filled level, maybe a tad less.

When you close the pan turn the rifle so that the priming charge will be AWAY from the vent liner.

Ignition is caused by a pressure wave created by the prime, that wave will penetrate the vent hole better if the prime is not up against the hole.

You can test this by filling the pan to over flowing and try and fire the gun - Most likely all you will get is Psst.

Refill the pan with 1/2 of the first charge and see if you get consistent ignition. Keep playing with the charge amount till you get good ignition and remember what that amount looks like.

One day you may leave the house without the primer thingy and it is good to know what the prime should look like.

While you are experimenting - when you figure you have the prime figured out - turn the gun upside down and touch her off - It should work - That part always blows me away.

Leo

 

[roundball]

Just a reminder as you're trying to absorb a lot of new info all at once right now...if you try the upside down thing...as most all of us do at least once because it's interesting even if it's meaningless...it's easy to get a little disoriented with regards to the direction of the vent hole.
LOOK TO SEE what the vent is aimed at when you hold the Flintlock upside down to avoid accidently burning / hurting yourself or somebody, catching something on fire, etc. :wink:

As one priming reference, my TC locks are medium sized locks and I use a 3grn plunger dispenser type pocker primer.
That fills those pans about 1/2 full and the level of powder is at the bottom of the vent liner, well below the hole itself.
Then as others do, after closing the frizzen I rock the rifle so the prime is ramped away from the vent and...knock on wood...I've always enjoyed ignition that basically seems like it's instantaneous.

 

[Stophel]

My guns just don't seem to be nearly so finicky as everyone else's. I dump the pan full of 2F, slap the frizzen shut, cock and fire. Boom. No fuss, no muss.

 

[mark davidson]

Thanks as always for the great info. on here. One plunge with the priming tool I have does not appear to come anywhere close to filling the pan 1/2 way like you all suggest. I will weigh the charge and see what it is dispensing. I would never have thought or known to rock the charge AWAY from the vent hole. Cool info! I will try that this evening.

 

[Black Hand]

I would suggest getting rid of your priming flask and priming with what is in your horn. It will work just fine. One less thing to lose or remember......

 

[Stumpkiller]

My guns just don't seem to be nearly so finicky as everyone else's. I dump the pan full of 2F, slap the frizzen shut, cock and fire. Boom. No fuss, no muss.

:rotf: That's about it. I believe it depends a lot on vent size and where the vent is in relation to the pan. If it's high beside the pan use more, if it's low beside the pan use less. I can't see where having too much powder will reduce the chance of the gun going off, but it will delay it 0.00000001 seconds while the 1/16" of powder beside the hole burns away to let the flash in instead of giving the explosion plasma a straight shot. :wink:

When hunting I usually fill the pan about 3/4 full. I'm more worried about too much powder keeping the frizzen heel off the pan and allowing moisture in.

 

[MikeC]

One push of the dispenser works great in my Large Siler Lock and my Durrs Egg Lock. I was always taught a little less is better than a little more. Never had a problem.

 

[ronrryan]

I am far away from an expert, but have been shooting flint for fifteen yers or so. Pans are not all the same size, and even the same size pan may need a bit different amount in a different gun with a different vent. Try one plunge, then try two. Try one and a half. Keep the vent (touchhole) clear when primed, so the flash can zip right into the hole. Afet a while you will have a good mental picture of the amount your gun likes. I have had some that needed hardly any prime and fired instantly and flawlessly, and I have had some that needed various amounts greater. Part of the fun is finding out, and once you do, you can load from horn, priming horn, plunger thingy, or whatever. You will know the right amount. Good smoke, ron in FL

 

[Desert Ratxx]

My guns just don't seem to be nearly so finicky as everyone else's. I dump the pan full of 2F, slap the frizzen shut, cock and fire. Boom. No fuss, no muss.

Me too. I think I still have the brass thingy in the bottom of my shooting bag. Who knows it might even have powder in it :wink:

 

[LRB]

Chris, You must be doing something wrong. That's just too easy!

 

[jtmattison]

1/3 to 1/2 full works for me and I try to carry my rifles tilted so the powder in the pan tends to stay away from the touch hole. If you have a trail of powder going into the touch hole you can create a fuse condition that has the tendency to slow ignition. With a clear touch hole and a good flash from the prime you'll get sure, fast ignition.

HD

 

[paulvallandigham]

It largely depends on where the touch hole is located in relationship with the bottom and top of the pan. I prefer a vent hole to be .030" above the top of the pan, so that the pan can be filled with powder. I also widen the pans, to give the sparks a wider target to hit.

However, on my rifle, the vent is half above and half below the top edge of the pan. I therefore only put about 1/3 of the pan full of powder, and bank it away from the hole so that the flame rises and is drawn to the " free air " next to, and in the vent hole. I always pick a hole in my main powder charge inside the barrel by using a vent pick through the vent to open up a hole in the powder charge. I do this before priming the pan. This exposes more granules to the fire and heat of the burning priming powder so that more than one granule is lit all at the same instant. If you don't open a hole in the powder, and the powder is packed right up to the vent hole, you are going to have a slower, " fuse effect", because only one or two granules of powder can be ignited at once.

If the touch hole, or vent hole, is at the bottom of your pan, you will want to grind away some of the bottom of the pan to get the flame down under that hole, anyway you can. You will have to bank the powder away from the hole, and probably have to enlarge the hole to make sure you get ignition every time you drop the hammer. If I had a gun like that, I would have a gunsmith plug up the existing vent hole, and then drill a new hole so that the vent hole can be properly located. I have seen well made- in other respects- custom rifles where the vent hole was drilled so its located at the bottom of the pan. Misfires are common, and slow fires are even more common. The guys, good shooters with other guns, just can't seem to shoot good scores with those rifles. Early on in my interest in Flintlock rifles, a club member was having that problem, and another flint shooter told me what was wrong with the gun. I had seen the location of the hole, but did not appreciate its significance, until the other shooter told me.

 

[mazo kid]

I agree that less might be better than more....Sometime when you have your rifle loaded and with no prime, try snapping the lock with the empty pan. You might just be surprised. It has been known to happen that the rifle will fire just from the sparks bouncing around in the pan. I have done it a couple of times. Emery

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Been using the same pan charger for years.

54 cal to 45 cal. Works on all of them

"A little dab will do ya"

 

[Larry Pletcher]

. . . .
Then as others do, after closing the frizzen I rock the rifle so the prime is ramped away from the vent and...knock on wood...I've always enjoyed ignition that basically seems like it's instantaneous.

Roundball,
I wonder if you (and anybody else for that matter) woudl do an experiment for me. In some of the flint photography I've done I found that priming powder doesn't always stay where we put it. If you would:

1. replace the flint with a piece of hard maple.
2. Prime as usual.
3. "fire" the lock as usual.
4. Check to see where the priming powder is after the lock snapped.

In a number of locks the powder is found all over the pan, up on the rear fence, and some forward of the pan. It possible that the jar of the lock mechanics moves the powder, and that our traditional method of banking prime away from the vent hole is defeated.

In some of the trials I did the lock was in a fixture, and the fixture may have caused this to happen. I tried the lock mounted in the gun and found that the same thing happened. It may be more pronouned in large locks where the cock and frizzen are more massive - I don't know.

If any of you try this experiment, please report back to me. I have trials only on a few locks and need a bigger number of locks and trials.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[jtmattison]

Isn't the powder ignited before it is jarred loose by the thrust of the hammer. I would think the shower of sparks would reach the powder before the hammer falls completely and the powder would already be errupting into flame before it can be shaken from the pan.
Seeing high speed film of the flintlock firing I don't recall seeing the powder leaving the pan at all before ignition.

HD

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Isn't the powder ignited before it is jarred loose by the thrust of the hammer. I would think the shower of sparks would reach the powder before the hammer falls completely and the powder would already be errupting into flame before it can be shaken from the pan.
Seeing high speed film of the flintlock firing I don't recall seeing the powder leaving the pan at all before ignition.

Regards,
Pletch

HD

When 4fg was used in my slowmotion stuff, the grains are too small to see. When we did this with 2fg, the grains were flying everywhere. you can see the granules silhoutted against the pan ignition. The other clue is to see where the first grains of prime are when they ignite. In the ffg trial they are above the flint - even with the top jar. they could not have been there because of the ignition - they were the frirst to ignite.

I know they are thrown around; my problem is that I am uncertain of the cause. Are they thrown by the fixture, by the massive cock and frizzen? Is this dampened by mounting the lock in the gun?

Here is the youtube link:[url] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzgVnH6uEP0[/url]

Watch for the ffg granules in front of the igniting pan and note where the first gains are as they ignite.

 

[roundball]

Pletch, I just tried it 10 times in a row on a .50cal TC Hawken (medium sized lock) mounted in the rifle like normal and not a single kernel of 4F came out of the[url] pan...in[/url] fact, the kernels of powder in the pan didn't move at all...no jumping, shifting, moving, etc...nothing...all powder stayed rock solid right where I poured it...then I tried 3F and got exactly the same results.