How sharp is "sharp"?

[ebiggs1]

How sharp must a flint be? This flint has upwards of 80 or maybe more shots on it. It is hard to keep track when they get this many! Especially when you consider all the dry firings. It is still sparking and I don’t know how to knap yet. I don’t understand the concept. I have been simply throwing them away when they get many strikes but I wanted to see just how far one would go. I haven’t touched this one. I just wipe it off with de-natured alcohol when it’s dirty.

 

[boar]

Go to Wall-marts and get a diamond file,7-8 dollars. There in sports dept. Pencil size. I use them on my flints, man made and natural. Flint has to be sharp to cut the hard steel on frizzen. :thumbsup: Dilly

 

[Kelhammer]

If it sparks, it's sharp enuff?

 

[paulvallandigham]

You can knapp the flint right in the jaws of your cock. With the gun unloaded, and NO POwder in the flashpan, cradle the gun in your left arm. Use the inside edge of your left thumb to LIFT UP the closed frizzen, while you manually lower the cock so that the flint edge will strike the face of the frizzen at the " HEEL " of the frizzen. This is that last 1/4" of steel where the "L-shaped bend" occurs. Think of the frizzen as a human foot. The heel,-- or " achilles heel, to be exact"--- is located at the back of your foot, behind the horizontal plane of your foot.

Now, make sure that NO PART of your left thumb extend beyond the face of your frizzen where it will be cut by your flint, and HOLD the frizzen open at that position.

Now, Cock the hammer back to full cock, and pull the trigger.

The edge of the flint will strike the heel at a steeper angle, that chips off an edge across the width of the frizzen, and from the UNDERSIDE of the flint. This results in a new, sharp edge.

Knapping takes advantage of the natural fracture lines of silicate rocks, like flint. Flint fractures along predictable angles. By using the heel of the frizzen to create a new edge, you get a sharp, new edge over the entire width of the flint, so that all the flint is cutting steel off the face of the frizzen when the lock is fired.

As the flint wears down, you need to move the flint forward. Otherwise, you reach a point where the flint won't pop open the frizzen timely. You want about a 1/16"-1/8" gap between the front edge of the flint, and the face of the closed frizzen, when the hammer is set on half cock.

If when mounting the flint in the jaws, the final tightening causes the flint to skew sideways, just go ahead and knapp it on the heel as described and you will have your squared, new edge.

Use a wood twig to wedge behind the flint to keep it mounted forward in our flint wrap. Otherwise, the constant blows on the flint will move it back rearward again.

WADR to the members who use separate tools and hammers to knapp their flints, those tools are simply not necessary.

Oh, your flint- the one in the picture, has an obvious " Hump " on the top of the flint. You want a flint that has two parallel sides-- top and bottom-- rather than one with a hump. The hump is causing the flint to LIFT up in that soft leather flint wrap, and that is causing the flint to begin to gouge the face of your frizzen.

You want the flint's edge to strike the face of the frizzen at 60 degrees, so that you scrape steel off the frizzen, rather than gouging the face. Gouges, when they are deep enough, will begin destroying the edge of your flint( eating flints!) and slow your ignition considerably. YOu can use cheap diamond "hones" you can buy at Harbor Freight, to remove that " hump " on the flint, and make a flat surface that is parallel to the bottom of the flint fairly quicly. Or buy a " mizzy wheel" grinding wheel for a high speed hand drill or dremel tool. bot work, altho the later throws up a lot of silicate dust, and should not be used without mask to protect your lungs from breathing in that dust.( silicosis) :thumbsup:

 

[Tsegoweleh]

Osayo Paul,
Thats an interesting idea. I will have to try it. I am lousy at knapping as well.
So... You want the flint to strike the steel at the joint where the face meets the pan cover. Is that correct?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes, that is the heel- just like on your foot! Right?

And, No this is not a new idea. My brother found it published in a back issue of Muzzle Blasts written in the 60s. He sent me a copy that I still have somewhere around here, so I could have the year, month and page to give to folks. I failed to record that as I find it hard to believe that many people have copies of MB that go back that far. :rotf: :surrender:

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Paul, when my Father passed 6 years ago one of the things I found among his collections was an old three ring binder protecting a copy of every Muzzle Blasts from January 1963 to December 1968. Now one of my most prized memories of Dad and loaded with information. Always a good time to thumb through those pages...

John

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here's a picture of Cherry Girl with a flint that has at least 80 shots on it. As you can see, it's been re-knapped several times and needs a twig shim. Note that the leading edge is pretty blunt but the striking edge on top is chisel sharp. I use 'em up.

One caution on Paul's mention of "hammering" a flint (sharpening the edge by using the frizzen heel). With an unbridled frizzen like Cherry's "Early Germanic" Siler it will eventually loosen the frizzen. I do it and have done it for years with several flinters - but only if it's a rush situation. Otherwise I use the spine of a knife or a purpose built knapping tool.

My two favorites are a 1911 Colt ACP GI screwdriver (a couple bucks at gunshows) with a 1/16" notch cut with a Dremel emery wheel and a wood handled knapper that used a tool-steel shaft with a turned lip near the end (left side of the below image). To use either you set the notch on the flint and press down by hand - spalling off flint from the underside of the edge. Takes 15 seconds to dress a flint for another 20 or more shots.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Sorry, Stumpy, I don't buy it. You would have to have a very strong Mainspring to do what you say is done, and your strong Mainspring would be crushing flints long before the frizzen would loosen. Perhaps with an original, Soft Iron frizzen, that did not have its toe hardened- where the pivot screw/pin goes-- this might happen, but not with a modern steel frizzen.

The angle of impact is so shallow when the get down to the Heel of the frizzen, that there is much less pressure striking the frizzen in that open position, than when a flint strikes the frizzen when the frizzen is closed.

If your mainspring is so strong that you are crushing flints, you need to address that issue. The angle of Refraction for flint is 110 degrees. You have another 10 degrees added to that by the angle of set back of the leg of the frizzen( 10 degrees to the rear of vertical) plus the 60 degree angle of Impact that is optimum for the flint to strike the frizzen when its close, to scrape steel off the frizzen, pop the frizzen open when the stroke is half way to the heel, for a total of 180 degrees. That 110 degree, angle-of-refraction is what allows a spawl to be struck from the underside of flint edge, giving you a sharp flint.

If someone is dying for a knapping hammer, I have one to give away. Its a great way to destroy flints and reduce flint life by half or more. And, I had lots of experience using it, before I learned how to knapp a new edge using my own lock. :shocked2: :surrender: :hatsoff:

 

[Trench]

Stumpkiller, can you post a picture of the tool you made. I've been using the spine of my knife to put a new edge on, but the end result is a serated edge that doesn't last that long.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Sorry, Stumpy, I don't buy it. You would have to have a very strong Mainspring to do what you say is done, and your strong Mainspring would be crushing flints long before the frizzen would loosen.

Sorry. It was late and I was tired and my reading comprehension was low. I thought you were talking about lowering the heel of the frizzen onto the flint and smacking it in the technique known as "hammering the flint". That works but puts a lot of stress on the frizzen screw and, in an unbridled frizzen, will oval the hole in either the lock or the frizzen eventually. Haven't seen your described technique in practice so I apologize for "skimming" and drawing the wrong conclusion.

Here is a close-up of my knapping tools. The "L" shaped one is a 1911 Colt issue screwdriver & pin tool that makes a great nibbler with the little notch and also a dandy screwdriver for the top jaw screw. The wood handled one was a gift from Prior Mt. Bill and he turns these out from drill stock as "trade goods". Either just need hand pressure to nibble away the flint to freshen the edge. It also works to set the nibbler on the flint with the gun on your lap and use the flat of a knife blade to tap as you move the tool along the edge.

 

[mikemeteor]

Paul - trying to envision this so I get it right.
Stumpy - borrowed your image to illustrate my question - 1,000 pardons if that violates forum etiquette.

In the pic below, are you saying one should hold the frizzen open to the point where the flint will strike in the area indicated by the red lines?

thanks.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hold the frizzen open up only so much as the edge will strike within an 1/16" of the bottom edge of the frizzen. The top two marks look a bit high to me. My frizzen is lifted open only about 1/3 of the way open to do this, and may be less. With my thumb in the way its hard to tell accurately! :rotf:

I use this same technique to square the edge of a new flint install, because that last turn of the cockscrew always moves what appears to be a perfectly square edge( to the face of the frizzen) askew a degree or so. Also, most of my English flints have knicks in their edges I suppose from banging around against each other in bulk shipments. I remove those small knicks in the process, and achieve a nice, clean, frizzen wide scraping of steel with the new edge.

The 60 degree angle of impact allows the edge to knapp off a bit of flint with each strike. This keeps the edge from loading up with steel, and causing misfires. I refer to this as " Self-knapping" as the flint sharpens itself with each shot. After 20 or so shots, I usually check the flint for " shortening", ie. wearing of the flint back so that the gap between the edge and the face of the frizzen when the cock is at half-cock is now too large. That is when I loosen the cockscrew, push the flint forward in the wrap, wedge a twig behind it to hold it in place, and screw the cockscrew down again. I then square the edge AGAIN, by lifting the frizzen, and dropping the hammer so that the edge hits the bottom of the achille's heel.

Stumpy, I cringe, and shiver every time I read someone is Putting the frizzen down ON TOP of the flint edge, the flint held in the cock jaws, and then smacks the frizzen to break the flint! AGGGHHHHH! :cursing: :shocked2: :youcrazy: :hmm: Its a good way to break a lot of things, and more likely the cock! I saw a man literally break a Musket flint- as big as they get-- IN HALF doing what you describe. He thought it was funny!

No, you won't catch me recommending that in my worst moments. :nono: :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Trench: that is what happens when I use any kind of hammer, or steel to knapp the edge. I get a serrated edge, that does not last long- just long enough to gouge grooves in my frizzen! I knew that there had to be a better WAY! I began haunting old Flintlock shooters at Friendship, walking the line, and asking dumb questions. I was shown the method I described by someone, but I didn't want to disturb his shooting any more, and didn't get his name. later, my brother found the article I have mentioned.

Oh, I found that article in Muzzle Blasts: August, 1966, page 21. The brief description is written by " Paul Nichol" with " credit" being give to "THE BRIGADE", whoever that is.

 

[lonehunter]

The method Paul is talking about works very well, that is how i have been doing it with great results. It is not hard to do, but watch your eyes, small pieces of flint are moving pretty fast when they come off. :v

 

[lonehunter]

MeteorMan, you have the idea, just strike the flint on the lowest mark you have on the frizzen in the photo. :v

 

[Jason.45]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just needed to say thank you to Paulv here, because that little trick has finally got my cheap flints sparking again, which I'm quite thankful for as I currently have no money for more flints. And it's easy enough to do at the range too.
THANKS! :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If it keeps you shooting, I am glad I could help. :thumbsup:

 

[kanati]

Yeah, that's a great technique, I'll have to try that.

Thanks, Ron