How to create more interest in traditional muzzleloading.

[tenngun]

As written above about movies and such to help our sport, I just finished watching The Queens Gambit on Netflix.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...s-gambit-the-true-story-explained/ar-BB1apIS5Apparently chess sets are selling like hot cakes on eBay.

Retention is a thing, and our sport might seem a mite intimidating.
Chess games selling well, but chess is oh so simple to learn and oh so difficult to play
And so with our sport. How many will be playing in next year?
Load your reserve area, clip or magizine, point and shoot. While there is an infinite number of things to practice and learn Joe Sixpack can pick up most modern guns and do ok.
We’re dealing with a gun that can kill you if you screw up the loading.
A gun you can’t take home and toss in the closet until next time.
All the little details
And what do you get out of it after you do everything right, after you buy the funny clothes, after you search the internet to find the stuff you need cause Bobs gun shop doesn’t carry 5/8 flints?
Crappy performance. Short range.
We all got in to this sport because we saw and we wanted. Gun, flint and steel, food on a campfire, blankets on the ground.
We’re talking about teaching wine appreciation to some one who drank rot gut just to get drunk. We’re trying to convince golf players that a leather ball stuffed with horse hair and one heavy wood club is all they need. That throwing paint at a canvas isn’t the same as the Mona Lisa
I think there will always be a few of us that want to play with past technology but even in our ‘happy time’ between the WTBS centennial and the AWI Bicentennial we were always the guys a little off level, one shingle shy of a roof, we were alway nerds.

 

[kje54]

The question was how to create more interest in traditional ml shooting. I wish I knew the answer to that. Nationally there was a sharp increase in interest during the Bicentennial year of 1976. Now, many members here and modern gun hunters were not even born in 1976. A general interest in the history of America has faded away. Schools are to blame for most of that. When I was an NMLRA Field Rep in Arkansas in the late 70's I chartered 16 new ml clubs into the NMLRA. Today all are gone. The last one in my area folded in the past year. Generally speaking, younger people simply are not joiners in any organizations. All are foundering and the only hold-ons are elderly retirees. However, I do believe there will always be some interest in our avocation. Look at the number of builders who cannot keep up with demand. The factories are in full production. ML shooters are out there. Getting them to participate with us, or any ml club, is another question.

I've been muzzleloading for over 30 years and I'd never heard of the NMLRA until I rejoined this forum. Saw you and a couple of others reference it and finally looked it up today. Now if I've been doing this for 30 years with obvious interest and have never heard of that organization then maybe the organization isn't doing a good enough job of promoting itself.

 

[FishDFly]

Rifleman1776 and tenngun,

Nicely worded.

 

[Carbon 6]

I've been muzzleloading for over 30 years and I'd never heard of the NMLRA until I rejoined this forum. Saw you and a couple of others reference it and finally looked it up today. Now if I've been doing this for 30 years with obvious interest and have never heard of that organization then maybe the organization isn't doing a good enough job of promoting itself.

It's simply irrelevant to muzzleloading. It is an organization unto itself, one that revolves around itself.

 

[FishDFly]

"and have never heard of that organization then maybe the organization isn't doing a good enough job of promoting itself."

As with all organizations, they could do a better job of things. They are lacking in some areas and I agree with you

 

[FishDFly]

It's simply irrelevant to muzzleloading. It is an organization unto itself, one that revolves around itself.

To a certain degree, I agree, but this post was not started to be a bashing of the NMLRA. Seems that happens a lot here.

 

[kje54]

It's simply irrelevant to muzzleloading. It is an organization unto itself, one that revolves around itself.

Okay. That's true with almost all organizations.

 

[Shooter1]

The shortage is not going to pull new folks into ML, you gotta go buy lots of new stuff to start a new shooting venue.

There also seems to be a shortage of ML guns and supplies.

I've started several new shooters with powder, round ball, powder measures, lubed patching, sometimes a patch knife and a few lucky ones with a rifle. I will take any old rifle with problems, repair and gift to someone new, interested and broke.

 

[Carbon 6]

To a certain degree, I agree, but this post was not started to be a bashing of the NMLRA. Seems that happens a lot here.

They are what they are, more like a farmer than a missionary. A lot of people have misconceptions about their role in the grander scheme of things. A pedestal worshiper I am not. I Swear it feels like I'm in a movie with Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon set in Minnesota, but I digress, now lets return to the topic at hand.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

I'm pulling my kids' car engine, so I had a few more minutes to think on this question.

In no way, do we need to make traditional muzzleloading "popular". There is no reason for that, and it ain't going to happen. The question, as written, is the correct one. How do we create more interest.

Interest, primarily, among the odd ducks who would enjoy doing it.

Making it easier is the wrong tree to bark up. Shooting traditional is a martial art akin to aido, the art of cutting with a samurai sword. People do it not because it's easy, but because it is hard. In a world of instant gratification, many people are enamored of fiddly things that are hard to do, because they crave the reward caused by achieving something that is difficult.

The world of traditional woodworking is taking off, for instance. Same thing with old cars, manual transmissions and such. I think the increased interest is there, and I bet this forum and others are growing, not shrinking.

I think each of us should make an effort to be a good example on the range, and actually go to the range. Let people see us do our weirdo thing, and respond in a friendly manner if asked about our antiquated guns. I plan on doing some education programs next year focused around blackpowder rifles.

It's important not to shrink back into our self-involved hobby, but to remain open to those who might want to make it their next big thing.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Now that's funny!

 

[Shooter1]

"I think there's something to learn in all my rambling, Something about winning being everything."

Winning is everything to a of folks, even if it requires cheating.

My first mentor taught me a lot. He said in competitive shooting, your goal is to shoot better than you did the last match. I never look at the board until I complete my shooting. Once you are done, you cannot change a thing. All the plaques and ribbons I have won are under a bed and out of sight. Set 5 national records in my classification and they are in a binder, not on the wall.

Last shoot I went to a shoot, a Mother brought her son to shoot rifle and pistol. He was was familiar with guns in general and you could see that. He could shoot a rifle very well. He was struggling some and was not following some of the required rules. I went down and spent some time with him and explained the safety rules he needed to follow. Him and his Mother were very nice folks.

What I found amazing, not one of the Range Officers stopped and introduced themselves and offered any help in general. Nor, did they address any of the obvious safety violations. He was not unsafe just a few things like loading directly from the flask. Hopefully he will come back.

Another fellow is prone to dry balling and I mean a lot. Range Officers would clear his rifle with CO2 and leave. After a while I went down and worked with him and gave him a few tips to help with dry balling. He still seemed frustrated with the process. He was trying too hard with shooting. What I found amazing is, no one showed any interest in helping him, the elder members or the Range Officers.

Have a friend and he has a saying, "I do not spend my money and be miserable". Since some folks have not become comfortable with ML, lack of instruction or mentoring, there a lot of guns sitting in closets not being used. How many are put dirty and left to ruin? It happens a lot.

I see quite a bit of condescending attitudes here at times to new folks. They stay a short time and are gone.

In the post "Rust In The Bore" I asked a question about rust and different steels between different rifles and I received a lot of replies on how to clean a rifle. I think 1 or 2 addressed what I asked. Kind of frustrating. How do you enlist folks when they ask a question and others will not answer it?

One of the top pistol shooters in the country I know was here briefly and was treated rudely. He left, Angie asked him to come back and he declined.

To increase the ranks of ML, you first have to enlist them and then retain them. I think a lot of the problem is retention.

Sad to hear your comments. Only one National record for me. Whenever I work as range officer, I watch for new shooters and correct them gently and offer any help I can... Loading straight from a can--scarry. I've seen it. That's where I will loan/give a powder measure to the shooter. I always seem to pick them up a couple at a time when I see them on sale. Also giveaway cleaned out ice cream buckets to measure over-- powder spilled all over bench makes me nervous. Just explain---powder is expensive and this way you can pore it back in can. Most appreciate the help/pointers..

 

[Gun Tramp]

I Swear it feels like I'm in a movie with Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon set in Minnesota,

That's what I thought was so funny, LuVerne, not your post. Slow on the draw here.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

That's what I thought was so funny, LuVerne, not your post. Slow on the draw here.

You're good. I got what you were talking about.

 

[Carbon 6]

I'm pulling my kids' car engine, so I had a few more minutes to think on this question.

In no way, do we need to make traditional muzzleloading "popular". There is no reason for that, and it ain't going to happen. The question, as written, is the correct one. How do we create more interest.

Interest, primarily, among the odd ducks who would enjoy doing it.

Making it easier is the wrong tree to bark up. Shooting traditional is a martial art akin to aido, the art of cutting with a samurai sword. People do it not because it's easy, but because it is hard. In a world of instant gratification, many people are enamored of fiddly things that are hard to do, because they crave the reward caused by achieving something that is difficult.

The world of traditional woodworking is taking off, for instance. Same thing with old cars, manual transmissions and such. I think the increased interest is there, and I bet this forum and others are growing, not shrinking.

I think each of us should make an effort to be a good example on the range, and actually go to the range. Let people see us do our weirdo thing, and respond in a friendly manner if asked about our antiquated guns. I plan on doing some education programs next year focused around blackpowder rifles.

It's important not to shrink back into our self-involved hobby, but to remain open to those who might want to make it their next big thing.

I think there is a lot value in what you are saying and you have touched on something important, How promotion might be detrimental.
If you look closely at the topic title you will notice there is no question mark. I wasn't asking a question I was making a statement.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

The movie Jeramia Johnson brought a lot of interest to muzzle loading. What we need is for Hollywood to make a movie where the mountain man shoots his ramrod through the heart of the vampire, and uses his powder horn as a molotov cocktail to blow up the vampires. Then we will get the younger people interested.

As in the movie, Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter...

 

[Crow-Feather]

Our club has a "Jr. Rendezvous" every Non-Covid year. We have about 2300 4 graders (who at the time are studying Fur Trappers),
We have about 8 to 9 stations where we explain and show what it was like in a mountain man's life from trapping to shooting to fire starting etc. At our range, we shoot various muzzleloaders at targets for the kids. I have told the kids that if they come to our regular Rendezvous, I will let them shoot my flinter. We finish our shooting with a blast from our 2" cannon. It signals everyone that time is up at their station. We have more fun than the kids. I like to wander through the crowd when they are forming up into their groups and talk with the kids. I think it gives them a memory that they won't forget and hopefully will encourage them later in life to involve their kids in reenacting. Picture is of Clara the cannon and the story teller regaling the kids with true funny trapper tales. The Rendezvous last for four days.

 

[Capnball]

People are always saying muzzleloading is a dying sport, or wondering how to create more interest in the sport.
I think one answer is to recreate an interest in, and to popularize small game hunting with a muzzleloader. Primarily the main focus has been on large game, but small game hunting opens up the door to greater possibilities.

Some advantages:
⦁ There are more small game animals to hunt than large ones.
⦁ Small caliber guns produce less recoil, and often less weight and report, opening the door to younger and smaller shooters as well as first time shooters.
⦁ Small game hunting is far more economical (less powder and lead, cheaper licenses and no processing).
⦁ It is easier to be successful hunting small game than it is large game.
⦁ Small game seasons are considerably longer than large game seasons.
⦁ Small game hunting with a muzzleloader is tremendous fun.

There is little competition in the small game market compared to large game. This opens the door to manufacturers to make and sell guns as well as sellers and makers of accouterments to fill this niche. Small game rifles translate very well to target or club shooting (another advantage).
Yes, I think small game hunting with a muzzleloader is underutilized and under popularized. I think it should be a key focus in growing the sport and is beneficial all around. It think it offers the possibility for appreciable gains.


Opinions, comments, ideas, all welcome.

I can tell you, I've always had an interest in the sport or style of shooting. I've seen people shooting everything from match locks to black powder cartridge guns at ranges. Every one an opportunity to spread the fun and knowledge of the activity. The very first time I took a black powder gun to the range to try it out I brought my son. After we both fired the gun, I let a perfect stranger shoot it just because he was jazzed about seeing a 150 year old rifle.
It's ok to show sombody how it's done. That person will remember you no matter how long he shoots and especially if they shoot black powder.

 

[Canute Rex]

A few thoughts.

Muzzleloading is always going to be a niche pastime. We can't expect to be the most popular kid in school. That said...

There are a lot of routes into a hobby. If we want more participation we need to keep all those routes open and welcoming. Some people are history buffs. Some people are hunters. Some people are target shooters. Some people (and I count myself in this category) like traditional crafts and cranky mechanical devices. How do we reach out to groups that are involved in these kinds of things and encourage what they call a "lateral move" into muzzleloading? Maybe have an "18th century survival skills" workshop. Engage with local historical societies. Maker spaces are a big thing; maybe some gun makers could connect with them.

Most of us (not all, but...) are grey haired men past a certain age. We like certain activities and situations. We communicate in certain ways. Young people are not like us. A couple of things come from that. First, we need to look outside our own comfort zones and think about what a twenty-something or thirty-something person might want. Second, we need to gear up a bit on computers and social media, or else "volunteer" younger friends and relatives who are into that.

I participate in primitive biathlons here in Vermont and nearby. There are more (and younger) people at those than at any other muzzleloader event I've been at. 150 people in a weekend is not uncommon, and that's in rural Vermont. The organizers of these events maintain extensive email lists and promote them. They raise money for charity and get prize donations. Friends of mine recruit actively at the local college and every year there are a few college students with loaner rifles running the courses. Younger, outdoorsy people enjoy running around and being generally athletic. A couple of students even folded it into their course work by writing essays or making videos. Not all will stick with it, but some have come back for several years. A perfect example of what to do. Athletic element + active recruiting + publicity.

What not to do: I belong to a local muzzleloader club that can't be bothered to send out an email to tell people when a shoot will be. You're supposed to know by word of mouth. I got exasperated and built up a small email list of people I see at biathlons and woods walks. Last year,as soon as I found out the date I sent around a two month before, one month before, and one week before email. More people showed up, go figure.

What not to do: I went to a woods walk put on by a bunch of guys from Maine. A friend warned me that it was a weird event, but went with me. I found out as I walked the course that there were special rules that nobody told me. I lost points because of that. Lots of grins and chuckling from the older guys who had been doing this shoot for years. Infuriating. I'm not going back. I can't imagine a newbie to the pastime wanting to come back. Maybe that's the way they wanted it.

One of the biggest mistakes I see in the business world is people marketing to themselves. "This is what resonates with me, so I'll promote that aspect of my product." That's what I see with muzzleloading. We create events that cater to ourselves, and not to 95% of the people we'd like to join us.

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

A few thoughts.

Muzzleloading is always going to be a niche pastime. We can't expect to be the most popular kid in school. That said...

There are a lot of routes into a hobby. If we want more participation we need to keep all those routes open and welcoming. Some people are history buffs. Some people are hunters. Some people are target shooters. Some people (and I count myself in this category) like traditional crafts and cranky mechanical devices. How do we reach out to groups that are involved in these kinds of things and encourage what they call a "lateral move" into muzzleloading? Maybe have an "18th century survival skills" workshop. Engage with local historical societies. Maker spaces are a big thing; maybe some gun makers could connect with them.

Most of us (not all, but...) are grey haired men past a certain age. We like certain activities and situations. We communicate in certain ways. Young people are not like us. A couple of things come from that. First, we need to look outside our own comfort zones and think about what a twenty-something or thirty-something person might want. Second, we need to gear up a bit on computers and social media, or else "volunteer" younger friends and relatives who are into that.

I participate in primitive biathlons here in Vermont and nearby. There are more (and younger) people at those than at any other muzzleloader event I've been at. 150 people in a weekend is not uncommon, and that's in rural Vermont. The organizers of these events maintain extensive email lists and promote them. They raise money for charity and get prize donations. Friends of mine recruit actively at the local college and every year there are a few college students with loaner rifles running the courses. Younger, outdoorsy people enjoy running around and being generally athletic. A couple of students even folded it into their course work by writing essays or making videos. Not all will stick with it, but some have come back for several years. A perfect example of what to do. Athletic element + active recruiting + publicity.

What not to do: I belong to a local muzzleloader club that can't be bothered to send out an email to tell people when a shoot will be. You're supposed to know by word of mouth. I got exasperated and built up a small email list of people I see at biathlons and woods walks. Last year,as soon as I found out the date I sent around a two month before, one month before, and one week before email. More people showed up, go figure.

What not to do: I went to a woods walk put on by a bunch of guys from Maine. A friend warned me that it was a weird event, but went with me. I found out as I walked the course that there were special rules that nobody told me. I lost points because of that. Lots of grins and chuckling from the older guys who had been doing this shoot for years. Infuriating. I'm not going back. I can't imagine a newbie to the pastime wanting to come back. Maybe that's the way they wanted it.

One of the biggest mistakes I see in the business world is people marketing to themselves. "This is what resonates with me, so I'll promote that aspect of my product." That's what I see with muzzleloading. We create events that cater to ourselves, and not to 95% of the people we'd like to join us.

Dang. All of that I've witnessed in the 18 months since I've decided to do muzzleloading as a hobby again.

There are certain Facebook and threads on here I can point to that demonstrates both of those points.