How to make Biscuits ?

[jmforge]

Good info. Remember that the invention of refrigerated rail cars primary impact was on the ability to ship meat to urban centers so that you didn't have to bring the entire cow or hog into town. Industrial Technology contributed more to transportation, preservation and "purification" of foods than anything else. From what Wikipedia says, baking soda as we know it was invented in the 1790's in France, but the first factory that made it commercially wasn't opened until 1846 in New York. With that said, apparently the Egyptians were using some naturally occurring analogue many moons ago, so who knows? Suffice to say that there have been substances around for millenia that do the same basic things that our modern kitchen products do, albeit not as efficiently. The question, as in all of these discussions, is not what could have been used, but one of general availability at the time and in the place that we are talking about. Some of the stuff we now use at home, like "store bought" yeast, might have been available in bulk form only to commercial bakers in the early 1800's. With that said, I haven't seen a "modern" biscuit or cornbread recipe that calls for dry active yeast that I can remember. The all use some combination of baking powder and baking soda.

 

[TexiKan]

With that said, I haven't seen a "modern" biscuit or cornbread recipe that calls for dry active yeast that I can remember. The all use some combination of baking powder and baking soda.

Although this discussion is on biscuits, I can't help but think of the Southwest staple--tortillas. Can't say I have ever seen anyone make those in my camping circles, but I would have to believe they were the preferred bread for some in the Southwest. No yeast required, either. They can be made on a cast iron griddle on a campfire, too. Food for thought......

TexiKan

 

[Black Hand]

Any two substances that create carbon dioxide gas can be leaveners. Even the lye in wood ash. Salt and egg will cause dough to rise. Certainly yeast, and there are all kinds of wild yeast spores blowing in the winds.

Granted, he wasn't to likely to have a ready source of Arm and Hammer sodium bicarbonate.

But most folks knew that black willow bark tea reduced fevers and pain. Contains the same active ingredient as aspirin. Not much stretch to believe their were other natural chemical leaveners in the boonies.

Please name one....
You can't just make a statement like this and expect others to do the work for you.

I know of white hardwood ashes being used as a leavener, and that wild yeast from aspen bark or oregon grape berries will work as a sourdough starter (I have used them), but no other leaveners come to mind. So unless you can prove your point, the entire discussion is moot. It boils down to the fact that either he made sourdough biscuits or they were unleavened.....

 

[zimmerstutzen]

He made whatever the scriptwriter's imagination or lack thereof, or whatever modern license, the scriptwriter did.

I know that salt and egg will cause dough to rise., Salt and wood ash,
Folk got their knickers in a twist over leaveners as opposed to where did he get the flour. In the non-agricultural early west, there wasn't much wheat in the mountains.

 

He made whatever the scriptwriter's imagination or lack thereof, or whatever modern license, the scriptwriter did.

Exactly. It's a movie - the script gave him everything he needed for the task. Where the ingredients came from was not relevant to the story. After all, they're telling a much broader story, not making a documentary about early biscuit dough. :haha:

 

[Black Hand]

Folk got their knickers in a twist over leaveners as opposed to where did he get the flour. In the non-agricultural early west, there wasn't much wheat in the mountains.

Wheat had been available for 200 years (or more) by then. Wheat flour was used by the French on the east coast, and was available in larger cities. Where do you think the trade-goods (gunpowder, lead, flour, sugar, coffee, tea, whiskey, cloth, blankets, etc) in the settlements and back-country came from? It was transported in by wagon or pack animals to the sites for the annual rendezvous, and these pack-trains could be quite large.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

from what I've read JJ had access to wheat flour and very likely made his own sourdough starter
no doubt at all from what he wrote that he did have tea, tobacco, spices (salt&pepper) and sugar available.
IMO he made fry bread useing sourdough starter, likely fried in bear fat grease. this was his 'biscuits'.

 

[jmforge]

How about the mineral natron/nacholite? It is found in some mineral springs.

 

[Black Hand]

How about the mineral natron/nacholite? It is found in some mineral springs.

Joe,
It isn't what he might have had (bet he wasn't a chemist with access to the internet) but what was actually available in his time/place.
Albert

 

[zimmerstutzen]

It has been far too long since I saw the movie and it is one I have my local DVD guy looking for.

It is a movie. It is a very good movie. But still a movie. A Hollywood stylized legend based loosely on a few real historical facts about various people of the era.

I actually knew a movie consultant who provided uniforms and assistance when "Young Washington" starring Barry Bostwick was filmed at Mt. Vernon. He griped terribly about shortcuts and things anachronistically out of place. But it was still a good movie too!

 

[shmrck1]

It has been far too long since I saw the movie and it is one I have my local DVD guy looking for.

It is a movie. It is a very good movie. But still a movie. A Hollywood stylized legend based loosely on a few real historical facts about various people of the era.

I actually knew a movie consultant who provided uniforms and assistance when "Young Washington" starring Barry Bostwick was filmed at Mt. Vernon. He griped terribly about shortcuts and things anachronistically out of place. But it was still a good movie too!

I think it is great that PC folks pick apart
historical movies.But on the same hand I will
still watch JJ everytime it shows up on cable,
I don't care if he makes biscuits from mud.
I just finished watching 'The Patriot'! Was it 100% accurate.Hardly. Did it encourage me to
investigate that era? Absolutely! Hollywood
has a place,in that it makes people think..Just
my opinion.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

it's a fact that he sold wood to the steamboats so likely he had access to a supply of wheat flour. likely 20lb bags when he bought it. little doubt in my mind he had sourdough.
I'd like to have seen him cooking up venison steak dredged in flour to make gravy from pan leavings.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Hey baking powder may have been invented in the 1890's, BUT. My copy of the Virginia Housewife, an old cookbook published in 1860, has a recipe for a quick bread that calls for a teaspoon of "soda"

I also have a photocopy of an 1832 cook book somewhere that has a recipe for biscuits.

I lent the books to a school teacher for her history immersion class, and wonder if she gave that one back.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

seems bakeing powder was available around 1820's? or maybe earlier?
anyone have for-sure info here? how did the bakers in Europe make the layer cakes they were famous for?
myself I still figure JJ would have used sourdough for 'fry biscuits'. the rendezvous did in fact have flour available as well as corn meal.