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How tough are the mountain men?

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squib load

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I saw a ordnary man who was an outdoorsman set down in the wilderness.It was not long he was crying and missing his family.He had a rifle to hunt meat and he lost 30 pounds.This was not a person from the city.He could not last more that 15 days.So Jeremiah johnson must have been a super man.Dont get me wrong,I wouldnt last a couple days.The man will be on national geografic tv soon.I am finishing the crow killer book.Can any of you recomend a book along those same lines that I would enjoy?Thanks,squib
 
Don't forget it was vastly different back then. No electricity, no comfortable home to to go home to. You just cannot compare those men with today's men. We may want experience it all but they had to.
 
You have to remember, back in those days, things (general everyday life and society) were just different - I'm not saying better or worse - just different. Life in the mountains was rough and dangerous. It was a matter of day to day survival and not planning on what to do next weekend. Your next meal and a good night's sleep may be several days away from today.

Read what you can about Lewis and Clark, it was a few years before the Rocky Mountain fur trade era, but things didn't change very fast back then and their journey and journals are fairly representative of the times.
 
Yeah, even on the farms and other parts of the civilized world it was way harder than what we've ever seen. Most of us would hardly be able to survive what our Grandparents lived through, much less our GGGG Grandparents. Everybody grew up a lot faster and learned quicker 200 years ago. If they didn't, they starved. And there was a huge difference between the city slickers and those who hacked out a living on the edge or beyond civilization.
 
If I am not mistaken, Winfred Blevins authored Give Your Heart To the Hawks. In that work my memory seems to recall a chapter on Mountain Medicince. The focus of the work was on the medical issues that mountain men faced. From what I remember the average lifespan of a Rocky Mountain Fur trapper was two years.

Read the saga of Hugh Glass. That can give you an idea of what some faced.
 
One thing that's struck me reading some of these sagas from L&C to John Johnson is there was no one kind of "mountain man." There were professional hunters and trappers who would make careful assaults into a piece of promising territory to basically grab every piece of value they could. Beaver pelts, hides or whatever they were after at the time. They would go in well equipped and typically operated as a paramilitary team, with the goal of surviving long enough to get their goods and get back to Taos or St. Louis or wherever they were going to cash in. They lived high and the ones who survived made a genuine fortune. Many went into politics or business after that, as we know. They weren't out there to escape the world, but to explore and survey or make a killing. Either way the goal was to get back to civilization in a better position than they'd left it.

Even lone explorers such as Colter had extensive experience with a larger group before cutting loose on their own or in smaller teams. He learned the lay of the land and how to live off of it with the Corps before he explored Yellowstone.

Then you had folks like John Johnson, the liver eater of lore, who came to the mountains well after the fur trade era. He was probably a little out of his mind to start with, and his extreme lifestyle has come to represent the "mountain man" because of that movie. That was NOT how the explorers & trappers of the earlier generations typically operated, though. And reading his saga, I doubt he would have survived long if he'd tried the same stunts in 1820 when the tribes he fought were not yet impacted by diseases such as smallpox.

To group both the famous explorers and wealthy trappers with folk who were frankly societal rejects under the same term leads to a lot of misunderstandings.
 
Just to add a bit to Cosmoline's post, very, very, very few 1820's trappers went in alone. Even the so called free trappers organized loose brigades to insure their survival.

They understood that a man alone in the mountains didn't last long so IMHO, mutual survival required mutual support.

God bless
 
There was a similar series about groups of modern folks who tried to make it in Alaska. They were like fish out of water, ill equipped mentally and physically for the experience.

They roamed through bear country without a high-powered rifle most of the time and wasted time bickering about inconsequential things. Most quit and went home. Some were able to adapt and began to develop skills and alter their attitudes to cope better with the situation.

I doubt that any of them would have survived in the mountains of the fur trade era. They missed their warm apartments and TV sets and Starbucks far too much. Fortunately, all they had to do was press a button on a transponder and a helicopter came flying to their rescue.
 
Russ T Frizzen said:
There was a similar series about groups of modern folks who tried to make it in Alaska. They were like fish out of water, ill equipped mentally and physically for the experience.

They roamed through bear country without a high-powered rifle most of the time and wasted time bickering about inconsequential things. Most quit and went home. Some were able to adapt and began to develop skills and alter their attitudes to cope better with the situation.

I doubt that any of them would have survived in the mountains of the fur trade era. They missed their warm apartments and TV sets and Starbucks far too much. Fortunately, all they had to do was press a button on a transponder and a helicopter came flying to their rescue.

Come on Russ, I watched that show, just had to. Don't you think they could have gotten better people, who would have killed to be there? Sure they could have but thats not really good TV drama now is it. I know I just shook my head at the people picked and their actions but it was like a train wreck, you had to watch. I will say this though, thank god for that N.Y Female bus driver or they would have starved or the show ended earlier.
 
Also what many people fail to note is most of the men who went into the mountain fur trade did NOT live through the first year.Survival is what made these mountain men tough.The not so tough (lucky ) did not survive. We like to think of those as " The good old days" but how many of us really would like to live in a time of infant mortality of over 60%, life expectance of less than fourty years. This is one of the facts that make The corps of discovery loosing only one man. ( Who most likely died of a ruptured appendix , and would have died in any city at that time )so remarkable.
 
squib load said:
I saw a ordnary man who was an outdoorsman set down in the wilderness.It was not long he was crying and missing his family.He had a rifle to hunt meat and he lost 30 pounds.This was not a person from the city.He could not last more that 15 days.So Jeremiah johnson must have been a super man.Dont get me wrong,I wouldnt last a couple days.The man will be on national geografic tv soon.I am finishing the crow killer book.Can any of you recomend a book along those same lines that I would enjoy?Thanks,squib

A few years ago my nephew's boy had a magazine article about a man who went into the mountains of Montana or Idaho (I am not sure which)With a Hawkin rifle some traps and just what he could carry. The Game wardens went in two years later and he is now serving time in prison on a list of game violations to long to list. But he was surviving quite well! Things have certainly changed from the old days when he would have been respected.
 
squib load said:
I saw a ordnary man who was an outdoorsman set down in the wilderness.It was not long he was crying and missing his family.He had a rifle to hunt meat and he lost 30 pounds.This was not a person from the city.He could not last more that 15 days.So Jeremiah johnson must have been a super man.Dont get me wrong,I wouldnt last a couple days.The man will be on national geografic tv soon.I am finishing the crow killer book. Can any of you recomend a book along those
same lines that I would enjoy?Thanks,squib


In addition to books there is a video "Gray Owl " which is based on a true story that I feel should be required for all of us who pursue this hobby. It puts fact and fiction into proper perspective. It is the story of a "native" trapper and hunting guide in Cannada and his attempts to make people aware of the need for conservation and apprecuiation for the old ways.I can not recommend this video strong enough .
 
If I remember right, wasn't Grey Owl a fraud? I think he wasn't "native" and was from London.
 
Ok guys,I now understand more about the hardships they faced.I intend to read more books so I can learn more about these remarkable people.squib
 
Here's a good book a few years later(1927) On the Edge of Nowhere, the story of Jimmy Huntington up in Alaska, can't remember the auther. He was a tough one. A good read. :thumbsup: Dilly
 
It's a funny thing that so many of us are misanthropes who vaguely hate our own kind and want to be the lone wolf in the woods. It kinda reminds me of how many people root for the prey in those nature films, when we've got so much more in common with the predator.

The simple truth is that we're pack animals by nature. We're made to work and live together. It's simply our nature. Hell, I hate everyone (except you guys, of course), and after a few months of solitude even I wanted to get back to civilization. It's just who we are. We're made this way.

So those folk above who speculated on the particular psychological deviation of folk like "Liver Eatin' Johnson" were right on the mark. Just had to be. There were nuts back then, just like there are nuts now, right?

But most of the "mountain men" must have worked in groups, just like we have for thousands of years before and will for thousands of years after we're all gone.

Just my opinion. You don't have to agree with me. You're free to be wrong.
:grin:
 
I have an old indian friend who lives in the mountains in West VA. No electric, water came from a hose up the side of a hill, used an outhouse, carried a big knife and a ruger 44. He could curl up in a pile of leaves and sleep in winter, though I think the alcohol helped. I figured he is tougher than a boiled owl. So I can't begin to understand what real mountain men and trappers were like. True Grit.

The Hermit
 
I agree, Swampy, they picked a bunch of wimps. A couple of them didn't do badly, but most were helpless, hopeless and clueless!
 
The old timers weren't exactly novices. They and their parents had been fighting Indians back East and in the Mid West for 100 years or more. Their homesteads in the Ohio or Kentucky country weren't exactly 5 star. They worked a lot harder than most of us and likely were tough as nails. They knew how to use a gun or go hungrey. One might get an ocassional Christian handout, but there were no food stamps. They knew what they needed to keep warm. I doubt the mountains were any colder than the Plains. Still, they were going into a new place with some difference in the game (a lot less than the plains), the vegetaion, the kind of Indians, the climate vs time of year, etc. It was tough everywhere, but unless you had others handy from whom to learn (indians or trappers), it was a dangerous row to hoe.
 
Also, there's wilderness and there's wilderness. The availability of game and food in one part of the west was and is a far cry from other areas. Sometimes it's a question of which side of the mountain you're on--the rainy or dry side. That fellow who starved to death up here likely would have been fine if he'd simply hitched another hour to the other side of the pass where all the salmon are.

There was a recent show I heard about where a fellow tried to make it solo in a remote area of the Yukon, which is nearly impossible. Some areas are just too rough for men to survive alone. Even the natives avoided them.
 

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