Howdah 20 in hand

[BillinOregon]

Big box from Cabelas arrived with the DP 20X20 Howdah inside. It's a fearsome piece for sure, very stoutly constructed. Barrels are good and thick and clearly will stand whatever I can stand. Will get photos up when I get it to the range, hopefully this weekend. Will also post progress on making a holster for this hawg.
A lot of gun for $499!

 

[Zoar]

Do you plan to shoot an any .590 - .600 round balls out of that thing? what about powder charge? Can you do 40+ grains of 2F in that thing?

I would think that would be a stiff load for sure.

 

[BillinOregon]

Zoar: WindWalker and others have loaded PRBs much stiffer than that in the Pedersoli Howdah.I have Lyman .600 RB mold and will be shooting these under 50-60-70 grains of FFg, looking for accuracy/regulation. Also hope to work up a decent shot load, perhaps attempting to duplicate performance of the old Eley wire shot cartridges of the early 1800s. Should be fun!

 

[madcratebuilder]

Bill, I haven't forgot about the wads, just been side tracked.

 

[Zoar]

Billie---Wow, 70 grains of FF behind a .600 round ball in double blam hand cannon has got to be some stiff medicine! I'm game!

 

[madcratebuilder]

I load 40 and 50grs under a .610/.010 patched rb. The 50gr load is pretty stout. I would start to worry about the stock handling much more than 50grs. There's not a lot of wood at the back of the trigger and lock inlet area.

 

[Zoar]

Yeah I have a 58 caliber (Harper's Ferry) and I stay just under 50 grains and it is a heck of a stout load! More than 50 is a Wow.

 

[***Sean***]

Going to drop both hammers at the same time? :thumbsup:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Going to drop both hammers at the same time? :thumbsup:

Please don't try that!!! More than one double shotgun had had its' stock shattered that way. People don't realize that when you fire two loads at once you get not double but four times the recoil! :shake:
Bill,
I would advise you stick to Pedersoli's recommended loads, they are recommended for a reason.
Pedersoli recommends 25-35 grains. Just because someone has gotten away with heavier loads does not mean it's a good idea. I have no doubt the barrels will stand double, triple, even quadruple charges but the stock probably will not. And what is the point of pushing the limit. It is a short range gun and with a .600 ball 35 grains will kill anything you can hit.
You just got a beautiful new gun. Why shatter the stock just to see how much it will take before it shatters? Not to mention what will happen to your hand when it does shatter.

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. CoyoteJoe,
Your points are well taken. However I do seem to recall the 25-35gr loads were arrived at due to it being the amount that was comfortable for the personnel at the factory, to shoot. In my opinion, the stock is stronger than what some on this forum seem to think, though I personally would NOT endorse a triple or quadruple load and would never fire both barrels at the same time. This is my personal opinion and nothing more.
Just the same, the 25-35gr loads are what the factory recommends and anyone exceeding those amounts do so at their own risk.
Best Wishes

 

[BillinOregon]

Joe: I have owned and shot many different Pedersoli muzzleloaders over the years, loading each shot, of course, as I went. I will be careful working up loads, and will use 40 years of black powder experience to guide me. I also possess a modicum of common sense. If you have handled a 20X20 Howdah, I believe you would conclude that it can safely accommodate loads beyond what the factory recommends. The stock is at far less risk of shattering than a similar stock on a double shotgun or rifle because the butt is held by one's hand, rather than slamming into one's shoulder -- a somewhat more immovable object.
Your concern is appreciated. I will report my results, and if something goes "aglay", I shall report that, too.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

That all sounds good Bill. The problem as I see it in working up loads beyond the recommended max, is that you have no way of knowing when you've reached the point of "almost too much", you'll only know when you've exceeded it and that point can vary greatly from one piece of wood to another. There is also a cumulative effect of repeated shock and stress. It may hold up to 10, 20 or 100 shots and let go on the next one. It's your gun and your hand so Good Luck! :grin:

 

[torn moc]

Yea....what's a new Howdah worth as opposed to a Howdah with a cracked stock???
I would'nt over stress it !

 

[BillinOregon]

Well, shot it yesterday with 40 and 50 grains of T7 under a patched .600 RB. Recoil very mild and accuracy looks promising. To improve ignition, I plan to swap out the No. 11 nipples for musket nipples, as I have done on most of my other Pedersoli doubles. The Howdah is merely a cut-down version of the Pedersoli 20-gauge shotgun.

 

[torn moc]

I guess it's like my Lemat smoothbore 20 ga barrel. The weight of the gun itself absorbs most of the recoil. I can shoot 70 grains of 3 FFF
in the LeMat smoothbore and the barrel barely jumps at all. Your Howdah probably weighs more than my LeMat.

 

[w7spk]

I have a Pedersoli French "AN IX" .69 cal smoothbore that I fire .678 prb's on top of 40-50 grains. Believe it or not, the recoil is about the same as my 1858 Remington Army. Pretty mild. Makes a hell of a racket and you can see the ball traveling down range which is cool. I've wanted to pick up one of these Howadah pistols really bad. I think its gunna be my next purchase. I got to hold one at the Cabelas in Lacy, Washington and fell in love with it. Great to see your reviews on it! Gives me an idea of what to expect. Has anyone tried the 58 caliber rifled version yet?

Sean Kelly

 

[Darkgael]

Just because someone has gotten away with heavier loads does not mean it's a good idea."

I like that. A variation on the old "just because you can doesn't mean you should." It surely applies.
Pete

 

[Zoar]

Holy Cow I am seeing some amazingly high powder loads on this thread for a pistol. I am certainly not contesting or saying it is not possible I am just in astonishment.

 

[w7spk]

According to the Dixie Gunworks catalog they recommend for the Howdah Hunter Pistol by Pedersoli 25 grains FFg for the 20 cal smoothbore and 30 grains FFg for the 58 cal rifled. For my "AN IX" pistol they recomend 30 grains FFg. But from my own personal experience, I know that up to 50 grains is okay. The blackpowder gunsmith I bought it from said that 60 grains is okay, but I never worked the guts up to try it. Its my understanding that with muzzleloaders, you're dealing with low pressure charges. So that there is a threshold where too much powder is just wasted powder and exceeding the maximum charge wont make the bullet go any faster. It's not like a modern gun. If you can handle the felt recoil and afford the powder, then why not try it a couple times? It's fun to try the max, but it's not necessiary in day to day shooting.

Sean Kelly

 

[Zoar]

banjo--In my own officially sanctioned field tests, (ie Sanctioned by the black powder backyard and push-mower association of America...) I have found that more powder does lead to more recoil, more fps on the chrony, more muzzle energy and muzzle blast and I have yet to find the amount of black powder where any of those level off or negate happening. That said, I know that 45 grains of 2 F or 3F black powder underneath a .570-.610 round ball in a pistol is a stout load and I for one would slowly, ever so slowly, increase the amount of powder above that level. The idea of 70 grains, is, well: awesome. In the old sense of the word. I really cannot fathom shooting that combination in a hand gun. But hey that is just me. Now, do I shoot 140 grains of 2F in my blunderbuss under a quarter pound round ball--Yes, but 70 grains in a pistol is in my humble opinion a horse of a different color entirely. That is quite a stout load indeed.