Howdah .58 cal
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I would think a 40- 45 grain 2Fg or 3Fg powder load under a patched .570 diameter ball would be interesting.
I would think a 40- 45 grain 2Fg or 3Fg powder load under a patched .570 diameter ball would be interesting.
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I'm don't know if your barrel is rifled or it is a smoothbore.
In either case, you will read about the popularity of thick patches being used in the rifles.
While those tight ball/patch combinations work fine in a rifle they can cause trouble in loading a pistol.
Pistols are light weight and their grip doesn't make the strongest thing to rest the gun on while trying to start the patched ball.
Try a .570 diameter pure lead ball (Hornady and Speer make them) and a .010 thick cotton patch lubed with Crisco, olive oil or one of the other vegetable cooking oils.
You really should use an adjustable powder measure made for black powder measurements. A 0-50 grain size would work fine.
Before loading, place a percussion cap on each nipple without a powder charge in the barrel.
Aiming downrange or at something that you don't mind shooting, pop each cap to blow out any oils, dirt etc that may be in the flame channel that connects the nipple with the barrels breech. This is pretty much a standard thing to do with all Percussion guns.
After popping the caps, remove the spent copper cap shells and place the hammers on half-cock. Then load the powder**, place the patch on the muzzle and center the ball in it and push it in as far as it will go with your thumb. This won't be very far.
At this stage, most folks use a "short starter" which looks like a wooden ball with two dowels sticking out of it.
If you have one of these, read on. If you don't, read on anyway and improvise with whatever is available to you.
Place the short dowel (about 1/8-1/4 long) on the ball while holding the pistol with a hand that can both hold the gun and hold the short starter in place. Then whack the top of the starters ball to start the lead ball and patch into the muzzle.
Rotate the short starter so that the long dowel is now resting on the patched lead ball and give the top of the ball another light whack.
When the starter is against the muzzle, remove it and use a ramrod to push the patched lead ball all the way down so that it is sitting right on top of the powder charge.
Repeat this with the other barrel.
When both barrels are loaded, place a percussion cap on each nipple.
Bring the hammer on the barrel you want to fire to the full cock position, aim and fire.
Repeat with the other barrel.
You can fully cock both barrels at the same time but if the recoil of one barrel happens to trip the sear of the other lock you will end up with both barrels firing.
This isn't the best thing to do for your stock (or peace of mind).
Have fun but remember, the residues from black powder and ALL of the synthetic powders ARE CORROSIVE. You must clean your gun fully using soap and water when you've finished shooting.
Lightly use a good grade of gun oil inside and outside of both barrels to prevent rust.
**When I first recommend 40-45 grains of powder I though you had fired black powder before.
That much powder under a .570 diameter lead ball is a fairly powerful load and quite a bit of recoil can be expected from a pistol.
You might want to make your first shots using 30 grains of powder under the patched lead ball.
30 grains will give a good mid-power load that will get your attention without causing the gun to recoil too heavily.
In either case, you will read about the popularity of thick patches being used in the rifles.
While those tight ball/patch combinations work fine in a rifle they can cause trouble in loading a pistol.
Pistols are light weight and their grip doesn't make the strongest thing to rest the gun on while trying to start the patched ball.
Try a .570 diameter pure lead ball (Hornady and Speer make them) and a .010 thick cotton patch lubed with Crisco, olive oil or one of the other vegetable cooking oils.
You really should use an adjustable powder measure made for black powder measurements. A 0-50 grain size would work fine.
Before loading, place a percussion cap on each nipple without a powder charge in the barrel.
Aiming downrange or at something that you don't mind shooting, pop each cap to blow out any oils, dirt etc that may be in the flame channel that connects the nipple with the barrels breech. This is pretty much a standard thing to do with all Percussion guns.
After popping the caps, remove the spent copper cap shells and place the hammers on half-cock. Then load the powder**, place the patch on the muzzle and center the ball in it and push it in as far as it will go with your thumb. This won't be very far.
At this stage, most folks use a "short starter" which looks like a wooden ball with two dowels sticking out of it.
If you have one of these, read on. If you don't, read on anyway and improvise with whatever is available to you.
Place the short dowel (about 1/8-1/4 long) on the ball while holding the pistol with a hand that can both hold the gun and hold the short starter in place. Then whack the top of the starters ball to start the lead ball and patch into the muzzle.
Rotate the short starter so that the long dowel is now resting on the patched lead ball and give the top of the ball another light whack.
When the starter is against the muzzle, remove it and use a ramrod to push the patched lead ball all the way down so that it is sitting right on top of the powder charge.
Repeat this with the other barrel.
When both barrels are loaded, place a percussion cap on each nipple.
Bring the hammer on the barrel you want to fire to the full cock position, aim and fire.
Repeat with the other barrel.
You can fully cock both barrels at the same time but if the recoil of one barrel happens to trip the sear of the other lock you will end up with both barrels firing.
This isn't the best thing to do for your stock (or peace of mind).
Have fun but remember, the residues from black powder and ALL of the synthetic powders ARE CORROSIVE. You must clean your gun fully using soap and water when you've finished shooting.
Lightly use a good grade of gun oil inside and outside of both barrels to prevent rust.
**When I first recommend 40-45 grains of powder I though you had fired black powder before.
That much powder under a .570 diameter lead ball is a fairly powerful load and quite a bit of recoil can be expected from a pistol.
You might want to make your first shots using 30 grains of powder under the patched lead ball.
30 grains will give a good mid-power load that will get your attention without causing the gun to recoil too heavily.
The .58 cal is rifled.
Nit Wit :v
Nit Wit :v
madcratebuilder
40 Cal.
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Start at about a 30gr load. 40-45 is getting near the top of the chart.
I have the 20ga Howdah and shoot a .610 round ball w/.010 patch. 35grs is a comfortable load, I have loaded as high as 50grs, I would call that a heavy load.
I have the 20ga Howdah and shoot a .610 round ball w/.010 patch. 35grs is a comfortable load, I have loaded as high as 50grs, I would call that a heavy load.
.
. july 1 / 08:30
welcome to the howdah club, obers:
i'm presently using and experimenting with the howdah .58 model and have had success with both .570" prb and .575" conicals using a rather short range target of only 15 yards.. (there's little difference when punching holes in paper.)
personally, i like the simplicity of the conicals (these are 575213-os lubed) with 40-45 gr. FFF goex.. recoil seems to be very managable.. gloria, a pedersoli rep, told me to start with 25gr of FFF as a standard load, but this is really pretty low.. don't hesitate to use more than that..
another option that i will be testing is a box of buffalo ball-etts that are only 380 grain and seem to be a cross between a hollow point and a standard conical (hollow base, 'dimpled' nose) that come prelubed.. because they are lighter than the .575" standard conical they should offer more managable balance between weight and powder charge.
the barrels are chrome lined, rifled at 1:24" (broach rifled.005" deep) rate of twist which helps keep rust to a minimum and does well to stabalize rounds.. the chrome will reduce the chance of pitting and rust but that's no excuse for skipping the 'same day' cleaning after range day.
as zonie recommends, don't get carried away with the 'wow' factor of these barrels - it's the stock that's the weak part.. yes, you probably could load 50-60gr powder, but how good would that look when the stock splits in two pieces.. as you notice, the entire frame is just a single piece of walnut - there's no steel reinforcement.
cleaning is a breeze.. simply remove the single pin and unhook the barrels - that's it.. gloria told me the nipples are 1/4 x 28UNF (PART NP1365) available through dixie and use #11 caps.. i have a couple tins of remington, and they have worked well every time.
also, you should mark your loading ramrod at both points - unloaded and fully loaded to be sure there is no ball creep between firing left and right barrels.. personally, i haven't had this problem but check it anyway just to be sure.
lastly, these really are a monster weighing over 5 lbs and measure about 18" and that's my only problem.. i'm not "andre the giant" and can't get both hands comfortably around the checkerd grip very well, so i've developed a two handed method: one hand on the grip and the other under the forend stock secured by a round leather strap.. imagine shooting a very small shotgun using both hands.. using the flip up/down rear sight you will have to test the point of impact on your own.. mine seemed to shoot low with the sight was up (at 15 yrds.) which might be ok at 25+ yrds.. practice makes perfect.
one last thing: www. flintlocksetc . com is the offical outlet for pedersoli u.s.a. and they will be glad to take your money.. they wanted to charge me $12 just for the owners manual (which should have been in the box to begin with ! ! !).
let me know if there's anything else i can do for you and have fun.. also, make sure you have the wind to your back when letting these loose.. they can smoke out the entire pistol section with only a few rounds which tends to draw a few nasty looks from the center fire / glock community.. ha ! :grin:
hope that helps :thumbsup:
~d~
i'm thinking of trading mine for an uberti colt model 3 dragoon, if anyone is interested...... pm me.
. july 1 / 08:30
welcome to the howdah club, obers:
i'm presently using and experimenting with the howdah .58 model and have had success with both .570" prb and .575" conicals using a rather short range target of only 15 yards.. (there's little difference when punching holes in paper.)
personally, i like the simplicity of the conicals (these are 575213-os lubed) with 40-45 gr. FFF goex.. recoil seems to be very managable.. gloria, a pedersoli rep, told me to start with 25gr of FFF as a standard load, but this is really pretty low.. don't hesitate to use more than that..
another option that i will be testing is a box of buffalo ball-etts that are only 380 grain and seem to be a cross between a hollow point and a standard conical (hollow base, 'dimpled' nose) that come prelubed.. because they are lighter than the .575" standard conical they should offer more managable balance between weight and powder charge.
the barrels are chrome lined, rifled at 1:24" (broach rifled.005" deep) rate of twist which helps keep rust to a minimum and does well to stabalize rounds.. the chrome will reduce the chance of pitting and rust but that's no excuse for skipping the 'same day' cleaning after range day.
as zonie recommends, don't get carried away with the 'wow' factor of these barrels - it's the stock that's the weak part.. yes, you probably could load 50-60gr powder, but how good would that look when the stock splits in two pieces.. as you notice, the entire frame is just a single piece of walnut - there's no steel reinforcement.
cleaning is a breeze.. simply remove the single pin and unhook the barrels - that's it.. gloria told me the nipples are 1/4 x 28UNF (PART NP1365) available through dixie and use #11 caps.. i have a couple tins of remington, and they have worked well every time.
also, you should mark your loading ramrod at both points - unloaded and fully loaded to be sure there is no ball creep between firing left and right barrels.. personally, i haven't had this problem but check it anyway just to be sure.
lastly, these really are a monster weighing over 5 lbs and measure about 18" and that's my only problem.. i'm not "andre the giant" and can't get both hands comfortably around the checkerd grip very well, so i've developed a two handed method: one hand on the grip and the other under the forend stock secured by a round leather strap.. imagine shooting a very small shotgun using both hands.. using the flip up/down rear sight you will have to test the point of impact on your own.. mine seemed to shoot low with the sight was up (at 15 yrds.) which might be ok at 25+ yrds.. practice makes perfect.
one last thing: www. flintlocksetc . com is the offical outlet for pedersoli u.s.a. and they will be glad to take your money.. they wanted to charge me $12 just for the owners manual (which should have been in the box to begin with ! ! !).
let me know if there's anything else i can do for you and have fun.. also, make sure you have the wind to your back when letting these loose.. they can smoke out the entire pistol section with only a few rounds which tends to draw a few nasty looks from the center fire / glock community.. ha ! :grin:
hope that helps :thumbsup:
~d~
i'm thinking of trading mine for an uberti colt model 3 dragoon, if anyone is interested...... pm me.
Joel/Calgary
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,251
- Reaction score
- 6
Have you had any problems with the conicals backing off the powder? This seems to a problem for some barrel/bullet combination. For some folks, it is just on firing one barrel and the other load sliding, but some folks have actually had them slide down and eventually out of the barrel just carrying the gun around. This is the main reason why the U.S. Army never used anything but a round ball in a muzzleloading carbine, since they are carried muzzle-down all the time.LeMat1856 said:
Regards,
Joel
LeMatt,
Thanks, that information was exactly what I was looking for. I have heard of those ball-ets, but I think I will start off with round balls. And because I am new, let me ask: How long can you keep a load in the pistol before it starts to damage the barrel? And would it be wise to buy a rifle of the same caliber just to make it more convinient in loading. Last question: I have ffg powder, does that make a difference on how much I put in. Thanks again.
Thanks, that information was exactly what I was looking for. I have heard of those ball-ets, but I think I will start off with round balls. And because I am new, let me ask: How long can you keep a load in the pistol before it starts to damage the barrel? And would it be wise to buy a rifle of the same caliber just to make it more convinient in loading. Last question: I have ffg powder, does that make a difference on how much I put in. Thanks again.
.
. july 5 / 22:05
doobers,
hello again,
round balls are fun and probably the more traditional load.. i saw a demo on the history channel of someone using a breech loading howdah with a huge brass cartridge and that got me thinking about conicals.. it was actually an over-under model, if i remember correctly..
you can keep a load in a pistol for a very long time given two conditions: it's free of ambient humidity (use a wax type 'bore butter') and the caps are as tightly fitting as possible.. so long as the neither the wadding nor any bore butter have water in their chemistry, there's no real limit as to how long you can keep a working load in the chamber - that i know of..
should you get another .58 caliber for easy loading ? definitely ! ! that's exactly what i did: a jp murray muskatoon in .58 and the howdah in .58 can share everything.
FF or FFF is there a difference ? yes.. subtract about 15% when using FFF from the FF load.. ex. 45g FF would mean about 38 FFF.. the reason is that FFF is a finer grain size and burns hotter / faster.. however that probably won't matter if you are switching between a full sized rifle and the howdah because most rifles use FF anyway..
one note for conicals, be sure you lube them both inside the cavity and all the way above the top (3rd) ring on the outside with a good, stiff waxy type lube.. i use a substance that melts easily and then dip them in by hand seperately.
also, for a good laugh, search youtube for 'howdah' and you'll be amazed at how many variations there are when it comes to using these monsters... ha!
rock on...:hatsoff:
~d~
let me know how it goes for you..
. july 5 / 22:05
doobers,
hello again,
round balls are fun and probably the more traditional load.. i saw a demo on the history channel of someone using a breech loading howdah with a huge brass cartridge and that got me thinking about conicals.. it was actually an over-under model, if i remember correctly..
you can keep a load in a pistol for a very long time given two conditions: it's free of ambient humidity (use a wax type 'bore butter') and the caps are as tightly fitting as possible.. so long as the neither the wadding nor any bore butter have water in their chemistry, there's no real limit as to how long you can keep a working load in the chamber - that i know of..
should you get another .58 caliber for easy loading ? definitely ! ! that's exactly what i did: a jp murray muskatoon in .58 and the howdah in .58 can share everything.
FF or FFF is there a difference ? yes.. subtract about 15% when using FFF from the FF load.. ex. 45g FF would mean about 38 FFF.. the reason is that FFF is a finer grain size and burns hotter / faster.. however that probably won't matter if you are switching between a full sized rifle and the howdah because most rifles use FF anyway..
one note for conicals, be sure you lube them both inside the cavity and all the way above the top (3rd) ring on the outside with a good, stiff waxy type lube.. i use a substance that melts easily and then dip them in by hand seperately.
also, for a good laugh, search youtube for 'howdah' and you'll be amazed at how many variations there are when it comes to using these monsters... ha!
rock on...:hatsoff:
~d~
let me know how it goes for you..
.
. july 5 / 22:45
joel,
so far, no such problem, but then, i can't walk around at all nor point the barrel in any direction but down range.. the only place i have to shoot is at controlled ranges.. it is a good point that i hadn't thought of....
seems to me that the first barrel would have to get VERY hot in order to melt the lube in the second barrel for that to happen, but in my experience, that just hasn't happened... and i doubt anyone could reload fast enough such that the heat would still be there... though anything's possible.
why not buy mine and find out.... :grin:
.... ~d~
. july 5 / 22:45
joel,
so far, no such problem, but then, i can't walk around at all nor point the barrel in any direction but down range.. the only place i have to shoot is at controlled ranges.. it is a good point that i hadn't thought of....
seems to me that the first barrel would have to get VERY hot in order to melt the lube in the second barrel for that to happen, but in my experience, that just hasn't happened... and i doubt anyone could reload fast enough such that the heat would still be there... though anything's possible.
why not buy mine and find out.... :grin:
.... ~d~
Joel/Calgary
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
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- 1,251
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- 6
It doesn't have to melt the lube - just overcome the static friction holding the projectile in place. Recoil on firing the other barrel is the most obvious possibility, but sometimes gravity alone or combined with normal handling can move a conical. This is especially problematic with less-than-bore-diameter (Minie' & similar) projectile, but can also happen in smooth clean bores with engraved-on-loading projectiles. This consideration often comes up in conical-vs.-RB hunting discussions. I've seen a maxiball-type projectile slide out of a hunting companion's rifle just from being carried somewhat muzzle-down.LeMat1856 said:
If this is found to occur in a particular combination of components and barrel, some folks have found that an over-shot card or two, or wadded cartridge paper, on top of the bullet is sufficient to prevent movement without affecting accuracy noticeably, or at least unacceptably. A bore fouled by prior shot(s) has also been noted to stop the movement, at least that from carrying around. I cannot recall ever hearing of a problem in a double with reasonable patch-&-ball combinations.
Regards,
Joel
