Hudson bay help

[Sean Gadhar]

I have been looking around for a rabbit gun, I found one that is more $ then I wanted to spend but :idunno: I hate to pass on it & find out it was a great deal & I just didn't know any better.

So

I found a Hudson's Bay Co SxS (I am checking a few things) I think it is 24 gage locks both say
"HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY" & "MADE IN ENGLAND"

From the photos I have it looks NRA fair/good
No cracks in the wood that I could see,small Wood dents & chips throughout.

Locks & barrels seem unblued or it is all gone with a lacquer like (light brown) patina on all metal.

So other then a tiny article saying these were made for Hudson bay to give/sell to there trappers .... I know nothing about this gun.
History
Quality
Maker
worth

The thought of hunting with a firearm that may once have been carried by a Hudson bay trapper intrigues me. But I know just enough to know how little I know :redface:

Any help with quality, value, history, and/or quirks would be much appreciated.

 

[nwtradegun]

without pics impossible to say

 

[Sean Gadhar]

without pics impossible to say

The photos I looked at were 3rd party (a friend who new I was looking, they are on his "note book") so I can't post pic at this time.

Any guidance on the subject of the Hudson bay SxS in general would be helpful. Are there different makes models of Hudson bay SxS?

I just need some starting point...

 

[Rifleman1776]

Maybe Squire Robin will chime in on this. He may be able to help. It is well known many English (and Belgium) factories made shotguns they shipped to the U.S., and probably Canada, with the name of the retailer who ordered them stamped on them. Often impossible to trace the originating factory. If it is safe to shoot, enjoy.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

So I hunted the net for a photo of a like firearm and found this one, that I (think) is a near match, triggers trigger guard the same. Hammer shape the same. Lock shape the same. Bit of (silver?) at key hole and bottom of butt stock the same. sorry just the one pic, no close ups.



My friend will be back from Turkey hunting in a week & I'll get photos from him....or sooner if the owner e-mails me back.

The one I'm looking at is in a little better shape then this. I know I'm not giving much to go on :idunno: Like I said I was going to pass it up then got it stuck in my head while all the concerned parties are off turkey hunting :surrender:

 

[bpd303]

If the bores & locks are good, I would think $600-$800 would be a fair price. What is the asking price?

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Asking is $800

I e-mailed asking for pics of bores & barrel markings but like I said "all the concerned parties are off turkey hunting "

 

[kurts]

I would get a right of return with the purchase, never know what the inside of the breech is really like and to debreech it you most likely will break the barrels apart. English barrels soldered, easy to break, Belgium brazed little more strength. good luck.

 

[Patocazador]

If you are just looking for a 'rabbit gun', spend half that much and get a good used Navy Arms Pietta or a CVA.

If, however, you are collecting shotguns, it's a different story.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

If you are just looking for a 'rabbit gun', spend half that much and get a good used Navy Arms Pietta or a CVA.

If, however, you are collecting shotguns, it's a different story.

Yep that is what I said when I walked away......then :hmm: I started thinking is it worth $300 to carry a gun that may have accompanied the western advance of the fur trade?

Dang it, only guns do this to me :haha: I'll buy any truck that works, what ever TV the wife is ok with. But I obsess over the guns I buy :youcrazy: :haha:

 

[bpd303]

I do the same thing (obsessing). I found an original Jaeger .58 caliber rifled on Gunbroker. Everything looks good with it... except the stock, which has an added unfinished fore stock and missing patch box cover and it needs a hammer. What to do... what to do. I finally bit the bullet & bid on it. To my surprise I won the bid at $140.

I think I can make it into a reasonable shooter, even though the Jaeger's had one piece stocks. When it comes in I'll post some pictures and ask for advice about the stock.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

$140 Wow

To my mind if the lock works and the rest is trash you did well. :thumbsup:

I'm just lost :shake: thinking about lowballing ($550 maybe) & let the cards fall where they may. I just don't know :youcrazy:

 

[Alden]

For me the decision is easier. I wouldn't shoot the original and I don't need that particular piece of art in my collection (at least not for the asking price)...

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Due to you not feeling it is safe to shoot? Don't want to use an antique as a day to day tool? Or ???

Not disagreeing just asking, why for? :v

I fully get your wall hanger point.

 

[plmeek]

Sean,

There are several good reference books on the Hudson Bay Company and its guns. You can order the better ones from Museum of the Fur Trade.

MFT

The Hudson Bay Co. did not start ordering percussion guns until after 1860. Double barrel percussion guns were common from the 1870's on. Guns like the one you pictured could date from the 1880's to the turn of the century. These guns were used by trappers and Eskimos, but also sold in HBC stores and by catalog to the general population similar to Sears & Roebuck in the US.

These guns were made by various companies in England including Isaac Hollis & Sons, Edward Bond, and Parker Field & Sons.

The quality varied from common to fine to HBC's Imperial line.

 

[Alden]

Both Sean. There are too many good modern reproductions available, muzzleloaders anyway, to use originals which I also have collected some of... In the latter regard I am NOT averse to wall-hangers at all -- quite the contrary. But not one I don't "need" for my collection.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I can't help with the price, but the one I handled (not for sale )was SWEET! Good balance, light, very well made but not fancy, excellent condition, and still in regular use. The owner took his first deer with it - he'd had it a LONG time. And yes, the idea of hunting with an original is VERY enticing, especially in the original environment/context. Good luck with this.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Many Klatch]

HBC traded good solid dependable guns to their customers. This gun may not be fancy but it will be sturdy and simple. Up in the North around the Labrador, the HBC boat only came by once a year to pick up furs and other valuable items. That was when they delivered the next years load of trade goods. There may have been a gunsmith onboard to fix broken guns but once the ship was gone the HBC Factor was all on his own for another 12 months. Whatever HBC sold had to be solid and dependable. I can't imagine trappers being happy about having a fragile firearm.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

E-mailed me late last night ...he sold it :idunno:
ah well, sob, whine, sob

 

[Sean Gadhar]

These guns were made by various companies in England including Isaac Hollis & Sons, Edward Bond, and Parker Field & Sons.

The quality varied from common to fine to HBC's Imperial line.

Ok I lost that one but just so I know you said"common to fine to HBC's Imperial line"

he did say it had "Imperial" and a single number he could not remember "on top between the barrels.

Go ahead ..tell me that made it a once in a life time gun :slap: with a sliver of the true cross inlaid in the stock.

Kidding aside you said that like Imperial is a higher grade...is it? & how much so?