Hunting loads Hawken Pistol

[cynthialee]

If the weather permits on Easter after the festivities I plan on finaly starting some load development with the guns we aquired over the winter.

First up is a .50 CVA Hawken pistol. Keeping in mind all my practice shooting is in hopes that some day I will shoot a critter so's that I can eat it...
I am leaning too using the T/C Maxihunter 275 grain conical as I have a box of them. It is a rather short conical but it is a bit heavier than the standard 177 grain .490 round ball. The pistol has a 1:48 twist. So it should be able to stableize the bullet?

So I am wondering...
With roundballs in pistols it is easy, 1/2 of caliber in grains of 3F powder is my starting point for loading. I was wondering if there is a similar rule of thumb for conicals and pistols?

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

I dont know the answer but please post pictures of the kills.

Good luck!

 

[phoenix511]

FWIW, I've a 54cal Hawken w/Bondini barrel from ToTW 30+ years ago, which I've carried as a back-up when hunting whitetails.

PRB & 40grs 3F is an "exciting" load to shoot, tried 45grs and that's more than I want to handle. I would not try to take a whitetail with this pistol as the primary firearm as I think it lacks the necessary energy, with either a PRB or a conical (like a Lee REAL.

Others with a higher tolerance for recoil/pain might try more powder and/or REAL. I know my limits! Whatever you do, in my opinion a pistol is a weapon you use until you can get to your rifle.

 

[cynthialee]

It is not a primary hunting tool. Not even a secondary tool as a back up, it is too big to lug around on top of a rifle. But I feel I should at least figure out a proper 30 yard or closer bambi slaying load. Never know, someday I might get stuck with it as my only gun and needing some lunch. (Or more likely an out of the bedroom window coyote gun.)

 

[Dphar]

It is not a primary hunting tool. Not even a secondary tool as a back up, it is too big to lug around on top of a rifle. But I feel I should at least figure out a proper 30 yard or closer bambi slaying load. Never know, someday I might get stuck with it as my only gun and needing some lunch. (Or more likely an out of the bedroom window coyote gun.)

Round ball will be easier to shoot accurately and will kill anything you can hit with it.
If the pistol is stocked right 45-70 gr will work in 50-54 calibers. But some will get nasty at charge levels over 40-45.


Dan

 

[George T.]

I always enjoy your posts and I have learned that you knoe your muzzle loaders. Why is it that you think 135 grains with that bullet will not work? :wink:

Over thirty five years on deer hunting In the Texas hill country I harvested 20 deer with hand guns. Three were intentional but the others were all what you describe. We called them targets of oppertunity. A deer would stop broad side at 15 yards. That was just to tempting. If yoy di do a 1/2 bullet weight shot please film it! :rotf:

Geo. T.

 

[cynthialee]

yeah I think I will pass on that and it is half caliber in grains not half weight!

 

[cynthialee]

For anyone who doesn't know what I mean by 1/2 caliber in grains to start:
For instance a .50 caliber pistol should theoretically do ok with a 25 grain charge of 3F powder and a patched roundball. A .40 caliber pistol should be good somewhere around 20 grains of 3F and so forth.

I was just hopeing for an easy math starting point.

Where I am at right now is considering 37.5 grains of 3F to start if I use the 275 grain maxi hunters. I figure it should be as good as any for a starting spot.
Why am I still stuck on these maxi hunters? I have them, and I can load the pistol quickly with them.

 

[M. De Land]

I use 50 grains of 2F in my .54 with a prb. Kids shot it all day long at our annual kids day shooting event one year. It does weigh around 4 pounds though so is not unpleasant to shoot with this load. MD

 

[Dphar]

If you carry the pistol muzzle up you are OK. But carrying it muzzle down is a bad idea.
Conicals do move since bore friction is not all that much.
If I had lead acetate I would not use it for sugar just because its white and sweet. Though there is historical precedent for it (Romans).

Dan

 

[Rusty_Nail]

I was also always told to start with 1/2 grain of 3Fg per caliber, and never exceed 1 grain per caliber.

My question is the 1:48 in a pistol barrel. Was this a chopped rifle barrel? Most pistol barrels are 1:16-1:20.

And a suggestion to try a Hornady PA Conical in place of the Maxiball. Its a little smaller at 240gr., but I like the lubed bottom skirt better than Maxiballs or Plains bullets three seal rings. And it is not as tough to seat it in the barrel.

 

[Don]

The maxi should work OK. Try starting at 25 or 30 grains under that bullet and then go up or down to find the sweet spot. The conicals will shoot higher than the round ball so adjust your sights accordingly. If you carry it loaded just make sure you use your rammer now and again to make sure its seated on the powder. Someone mentioned the Pennsylvania conicals and I would recommend them also. They have been very accurate out of my guns.

Don

 

[Dphar]

I was also always told to start with 1/2 grain of 3Fg per caliber, and never exceed 1 grain per caliber.

My question is the 1:48 in a pistol barrel. Was this a chopped rifle barrel? Most pistol barrels are 1:16-1:20.

And a suggestion to try a Hornady PA Conical in place of the Maxiball. Its a little smaller at 240gr., but I like the lubed bottom skirt better than Maxiballs or Plains bullets three seal rings. And it is not as tough to seat it in the barrel.

Most pistols I have made have had 66 or 70" twists.
I did make a pair of short barreled belt pistols by cutting a 22" twist Green Mountain pistol barrel to make two 6" peices.
Cut off rifle barrels have proven to be accurate enough, 2" or less at 25 yards and allow charges heavy enough to be useful and produce decent accuracy to 75-100 yards.
I have no use for pop gun pistol loads. But I make my own pistols and I know what the barrels are and how they are breeched etc. Nor do I shoot conicals. I lack the patience to constantly check to see if the bullet is on the powder :youcrazy:

If a person wants to shoot a 270 grain bullet then shoot a RB from a 58. A 54 maxi-ball weighs as much as a .662 RB but will not produce an equal effect on an animal. Nor do I have any desire to shoot a bullet weighing an ounce from a pistol. A 54-58 round ball will approach 44 Mag in killing power to 25 yards or so and will easily kill deer or even elk if used right.
A RB from a 54 will kill large game to 150 yards plus. This range produces an impact velocity obtained with a stiff load in a pistol at 25 yards or so. Hunting and penetration testing has proven this to be true. But people just cannot seem to believe in the RB. Hundreds of years historical use, contemporary use and reports are not enough. They just gotta have "new and improved" even if its neither and was tried in the past and found at best to be no better than a RB. So people that have never done extensive testing or hunting with the round ball are convinced it will not work well when ALL the evidence is to the contrary.

Dan

 

[Don]

You are quite right about the round balls effectiveness. I must admit I have fallen for the "heavier is better" mind set on occasion even when I know that a well placed round ball is more than up to the job of getting game. Even still it is fun to see how different projectiles will perform out of your guns.

Don

 

[cynthialee]

The pistol came from CVA with a 1:48 twist, it is marked right on the barrel.

to Dan
I know about the worry about conicals moving off the powder.

 

[cynthialee]

oh yeah...

Sevan wound up naping durring prime shooting hours and preserving the harmony of the household won out over my desire to blast a 1/4 pound of powder in 25-45 grain incriments for the afternoon.

 

[Dickydalton]

My Traditions 50 has a 1 in 20" and with 35 to 40 grains of 3F and a 490 PRB it is deadly accurate at 30 yards.

 

[cynthialee]

Since I saw that it has a 1:48 instead of a faster twist I have been wondering why.

 

[VEARL]

In my Lyman 54 cal. pistol, I shoot 40 gr of 2F powder. If I used 3F powder, I would reduce it down to 30 gr.
A well matched lubed patch with a 530 RB does everything I want it to do. 25 Yds is my max: shooting distance with it. Good enough for dispatching an animal and great for paper targets.
And..........the recoil is not that bad either. :thumbsup:

 

[VEARL]

I have always liked the CVA Hawkin pistol. If you ever get tired of it. You cam mail it to me and I would give it a good home. :thumbsup: