Hunting with a 36cal.

[Gote Rider]

I am thinking about buying a cva squirrel rifle in 36cal.Do any of you know anything about this rifle good or bad? I have heard about these rifles but I have not seen one. Where can I look at a picture of one? I want to try one out on some hogs.

 

[jtmattison]

I've heard good reports on them.

You can pick up a T/C maxi-ball mould for it on Ebay. That little conical would make it a pretty good hunting rifle within limits.

HD

 

[BrownBear]

Here is one in 32 cal. I've got one in 36. Nothing really "fancy" about it, but man, is it ever a shooter. My wife has pretty well taken it over, so it's been a while since I've shot it myself. But even with her limited experience with muzzleloaders, by the time we finished shooting last time out she was keeping all her shots into a group the size of a squirrel head at 25 yards-- offhand. I'd say she's ready for busting snowshoe hare heads all right, and a good thing too since we're a little short of squirrels up here.

 

[Don]

I have a CVA in .36. Haven't taken any game with it yet but with 40 grains of 777 it groups nicely at 30yrds. Plan on baggin some squirrels with it this coming fall. Be aware though that cleaning is a little more tricky because of the small bore. Powder fouling can also be a pain thats one reason I use 777 in it.

Don

 

[BrownBear]

I'll chime in and say "Holy Moley" on the cleaning part.

I've worked seriously with 3f Goex, Pyro P and 777 in 3f and an assortment of patches and lubes. The real black is by far the worst fouler in both my 36 and my 32, at least down in the 20-25 grain charge range I use all the time for snowshoe hares and plinking. My hunting pard prefers 777 in his bigger bores, and things are fine in his 36 and 32 till he drops down below 30 grains. Then his fouling goes out the roof. I haven't tried the hotter loads he now uses, but I had the same experience down in the 20-25 grain charge range.

But with Pyro P I often go over 20 shots without having to swab the bore or experiencing any misfires. It's easy to clean up too. In my book, for the kind of reduced charges I prefer for small game anyway, Pyro P is a hands down winner. Either of the others is a sincere PITA. Your results may be different, but if you encounter problems try some other components. I'm betting you'll find results good enough to have you doubting all the fuss you hear about fouling in small bores.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Ever try 4f, I don't know, just asking?
Britsmoothy.

 

[shmrck1]

I want to try one out on some hogs.

Gote Rider,
I ain't gonna say a .36 won't put down
a hog,but personally I would use a .50.But that is
just me.
snake-eyes

 

[BrownBear]

Ever try 4f, I don't know, just asking?
Britsmoothy.

I tried it for 3 or 4 shots, but not enough to really learn anything. I've got one can of the stuff and have been saving it for priming when I get around to a flinter. Black is precious here on a remote island and darned near impossible to ship in, so I kinda hoard it if I can find something else that will work.

Good thought though. Next time I find a wrinkle in the shipping system that will allow me to get in a few more cans, I'll add another can of 4f to the shopping list.

 

[BrownBear]

I want to try one out on some hogs.

Gote Rider,
I ain't gonna say a .36 won't put down
a hog,but personally I would use a .50.But that is
just me.
snake-eyes

I missed your interest in hogs the first time around Gote Rider.

I'm not saying don't do it, but based on my experiences with the small ball, I'd sure recommend you try a Maxi if you're real set on doing it. I've never been inclined to try mine on our 100-150 pound deer, but could probably pull it off with just the right shot in just the right situation. I'd guess that "just the right shot in just the right situation" would be even more specific for hogs.

I'd probably stick to smaller hogs too, but I do that anyway cuzz all I'm after is meat. Years ago when I lived in the Southwest I was among a group of folks that regularly took javelina with 25-20s and 32-20s. Those generate somewhat similar ballistics and there was never any issue with those little desert pigs. They probably average around 50 pounds on the hoof, and I doubt I ever saw one that came close to 70 pounds.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The main problem with fouling in those small caliber rifles, using small charges, is that you don't build enough chamber pressure to insure efficient, and complete burning of even FFFg powder. There are two things you can do to make BP work better in the .32 and .36 caliber rifles:

1. First, screen the powder. Buy some 40x40 mesh Wire screen from McMasters.com, make up a frame to hold it, and sift the FFFg powder. The clinkers will not pass through, unless you break them down.
Removing clinkers, and anything larger than 40 mesh powder will enhance the burning performance.

2. Use an OP wad IN ADDITION to your PRB in these small calibers. Face it, the balls just don't weight enough to give enough resistance, long enough, to allow for complete burning. By adding either a filler, like corn meal, or an OP wad, you increase the weigh being pushed out of the barrel, and the friction coefficient of the materials in the bore, so that there are a few milliseconds more time for the pressure to rise before the ball begins moving down the barrel. This doesn't sound like much, but those extra milliseconds are all that is needed to increase chamber pressures and burn those granules of BP more complete.

Oh, The range for BP Granules rated as FFFg runs from 24 mesh to 46 mesh. I found no source of screens between 24 and 46 mesh, other than the 40, and that is what I recommend, here. The 12 inch square of 40 mesh screen costs $ 7.33 the last time I looked. :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Thanks Paul, but I sleep well and spend a lot less time futzing around using Pyro P. It works better right out of the can, and it's a whole bunch easier for me to get.

I'll mess with the 4f some more when I get around to it and have a little more on hand, but even then I'm likely to go right on using Pyro cuzz it's so much better in this application.

 

[paulvallandigham]

BrownBear: Some of the readers here are shooting flintlocks, in .36 caliber. Pyro P is not going to work for them.

You are obviously going to do what you want, but there is NO WAY you are going to see me putting any amount of FFFFg powder down the barrel of a .36 caliber rifle. The can says its for priming ONLY, and I think there is a good reason for that. :hmm:

Testing of small amounts of FFFFg powder as a propellant shows huges spikes in pressure, and a wide range of velocities, resulting from those spikes. The guns are not likely to blow up, because of the modern steels used, but why put that kind of pressure against the threads on that nipple in your percussion rifle? :hmm: :v

Finally, considering the difference in cost of Pyrodex P powder vs. Black Powder, you can pay for that screen wire in one or two cans of powder. :hmm: :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

All true Paul, and I agree for flinters.

But this discussion is about cappers.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I was standing behind my brother when he shot his first percussion gun, only to have the nipple disappear over head somewhere. I have never seen a similar occurrence happen with a flintlock. I am told that liners have been blown out, but I have never seen it happen, or talked to anyone who actually witnessed such an event.

Whether you are shooting a percussion or flintlock, putting 4Fg powder in the barrel as a propellant is just wrong, and dangerous. And the price difference between Pyro P, and black powder doesn't change because you shoot a percussion gun.I know you have trouble taking delivery of Black Powder on Kodiak Island, so you resort to using these substitute powders out of necessity. :hatsoff:

 

[Walks Alone]

I don't know about for hogs - but the wild boar I hunted way back when I lived in the PRK a 36 certainly wouldn't handle. But it can do coyotes, other predators and small game just fine.

Not a very good picture, but here's my mint early CVA Squirrel 36 Capper.

My other 36, a TC Hawken set up for longer range varmint hunting.

I have both RB and Maxi molds for more versatility.

WA

 

[paulvallandigham]

Only a shot in the ear of a large hog with that .36 will bring it down. But, if you get a broadside standing shot, at the usual close ranges, such a shot is possible. I know a man who shot hundreds of deer as a kid for the family to eat during the Depression, using a .22 rifle, and shooting the deer behind the ear. This was in the woods in Vermont, and it was an extended family event, with drivers, and the women to skin out the deer, and cook, or smoke the meat for the winter.

 

[BrownBear]

We used to live trap wild pigs in one of our silage pits all my years growing up. The trap was a pen about 16' square as I recall, with a spring loaded one-way swinging door. Just dribble in some corn and leave a pile in the pen, and some mornings you might have half a dozen in there.

We didn't want to ruin good heads cuzz our mama wouldn't deal with bloodshot heads and we'd be out of tamales and head cheese. A whack in the neck with a 22 LR right up near the base of the skull dropped them cold. Probably did in several dozen over the years with a 22 and never had to shoot twice, but that doesn't make the 22 a pig gun.

If I was going to hunt them, I sure wouldn't pick a 36 even with a maxi, but if I had to do it I know I could. Pass up all but perfect shots close up and broadside through the lungs. Should work just fine if you stick to those limits. But then again I'm different than someone looking for trophies, and I wouldn't be likely to shoot one much over 100 pounds. The little ones are just too good eating.

 

[Gote Rider]

That cva looks good.The sites looks just like the ones I have on my 50cals.The reason I want to know about the 36cal.is I hunt sometimes on some of the WMA in GA. and during small game season hogs are legal to shoot. I have been hunting with my 50cal for the hogs and seeing lots of rabbits while hunting. I dont think I want to shoot a rabbit with a 370gr. maxi-ball that would be a mess. I was thinking that if I had a 36cal. I could shoot some rabbits and shoot hogs with it to. I think that if I could get a shot at 30yds and less the 36cal.would work with a well placed shot.

 

[BrownBear]

I understand now. Maybe my similar dilema up here in Alaska (believe it or not!) can give you more choices.

I say similar because in early fall our deer climb way up the mountains into places you'd expect to see Dall sheep or mountain goats. We don't have the sheep, but I do see the goats on my hunts. It's a long hard climb before you even start to hunt.

In the same places you also find ptarmigan, a grouse that turns white in winter. They're tasty and fun to hunt, but dang, it's sure a long ways to climb just for birds. I like to take both them and deer after working so hard to get there. You can shoot them with anything you want up here, and the limit is 20 a day, if that tells you how many may be around.

Over the years I've carried a centerfire rifle with deer loads and reduced loads for head shooting ptarmigan. I've carried a shotgun for ptarmigan and a large cal revolver for deer. I've carried a deer rifle and a 22 revolver. I've carried a large revolver and a sling shot. I've carried a 22 rifle and a large cal pistol.

All were legal and all worked. The difference day to day and year to year depended on my current interests, my mood, and whatever else I was carrying (sometimes we pack in a camp and try to keep the load down to make room for packing a deer out.)

If I was going up there right now with my muzzleloading interests, I'd probably carry a deer rifle and a cap and ball revolver for the ptarmigan. It's problematic to change out big game loads for small game loads in a rifle as I do with my cartridge guns, so I don't think I'd try that.

But in truth, I'd most likely just use my heavy loads for head shooting the ptarmigan, even a load as heavy as yours. At the range we're both likely to be shooting the small game, head shots are not a problem and they don't mess up the meat.

In your proposal to use the 36 cal for both, I think you'd be in the same boat as me using a 54 cal. Changing loads is not really an option, and if you body shoot a rabbit with your hog load, it's going to blow up the rabbit just as surely as your 50 cal. You're going to have to head shoot your rabbits even with the 36.

Knowing that, I'd plan on continuing to carry the 50 and using the hog loads to head shoot the rabbits.

That 36 will be a dandy rabbit gun with reduced loads on dedicated bunny hunts. But in my experience with both 36 and 32 cal, even with the reduced loads you're still going to want to head shoot your rabbits. Even at low velocities the 32 and 36 cal balls are "big" compared to the size of a rabbit, and they sure tear up a whole lot of eating meat.

 

[Walks Alone]

That cva looks good.The sites looks just like the ones I have on my 50cals.The reason I want to know about the 36cal.is I hunt sometimes on some of the WMA in GA. and during small game season hogs are legal to shoot. I have been hunting with my 50cal for the hogs and seeing lots of rabbits while hunting. I dont think I want to shoot a rabbit with a 370gr. maxi-ball that would be a mess. I was thinking that if I had a 36cal. I could shoot some rabbits and shoot hogs with it to. I think that if I could get a shot at 30yds and less the 36cal.would work with a well placed shot.

I base my opinions on my actual hunting experience and the noted results on flesh and bone more than ballistic charts. And thats even more important when we're talking a muzzleloader instead of a modern cartridge firearm. The 36 is puny and at best a 22MAG on steroids. So do you ethically hunt those hogs with a 22 MAG rimfire? Even if you do could you hit a dime sized spot consistently at 30 yards with a 36 muzzleloader even if it is rooting and moving around? A well placed shot sounds good on paper, but takes some doing in the real hunting world, especially with a muzzleloader. You could probably kill a moose with a 22 rimfire, but what's that got to do with it? We're talking ethical and humane hunting here, not doing what you have to do in a dire situation. The 36 PRB will kill a western coyote at 30 yards and beyond... IF! But they are much easier to kill than even a small hog.

I dual hunted in my youth too with only one gun. Used a Winchester 94 for mule deer and elk, and when the opportunity arose on those hunts also for pine hens and snowshoes for the camp pot. Any doubt what happened to either of them with anything but a head or near head shot? We ate beans.

I don't know your hogs, again having only extensively hunted the wild boar in the PRK and Javelina a couple of times in AZ. But I wouldn't consider hunting hogs with a 36 muzzleloader ethical myself.