Hy Hunter Zouave

[Zip]

Has anyone ever hear of such a gun? I was in a local gun store and came across this. Not having my glasses with me, I couldn't read any of the barrel markings. But the sales tag said "Hy Hunter Zouave." It's a .58 caliber, 2-band percussion gun. It has a flip-up/down rear sight. The metal ramrod was threaded at the end opposite the loading jag end. It did not bottom out when I reversed it, as when loading.

From what I could tell, again w/o my glasses, the blondish wooden stock looked in good condition, the lock and hammer too. I cocked the gun and the trigger broke smoothly w/o being overly heavy. The crown and end of internal barrel looked good. The length of pull fit me very well. The gun felt like it weighed around 8-9 lbs. They are asking $350.

My 2009 Standard Catalog of Firearms lists a "Hy-Hunter, Inc." of Burbank, CA. But there is no mention of a Zouave model.

What do you guys think?

 

[Zip]

Uh oh, I found this 2003 post on another website: "Don't attempt to shoot it. Made in the late '50's & early '60's, Hy Hunter's Remington Zouave copies were known to suffer burst barrels at the breech when fired. Put it on the wall and forget about it. Not worth the risk of bodily injury." :shocked2:

I'm not into buying and NOT shooting guns. Still wondering if anyone out there can confirm the quality of these guns. It sounded like a potentially good deal as I was gonna offer $250. Now I don't know.

 

[54MAN]

your going to have to findout what brand it is to really be able to tell...its my understanding that those type of rifles are/were made by zoli, pedersoli and i THINK navy arms at one point..if it is any of these three manufacturers than i would buy it in a heart beat...if it isint one of these three than..someone else who knows will have to chime in...other than that it sounds like a great price if the condition is good :thumbsup:

 

[Zip]

Well, I think "Hy Hunter" is the brand. But it sure can get pretty confusing with the imports. The major Italian blackpowder/muzzleloader manufacturers seemed to be Armi Sport, Euroarms, Pedersoli, Uberti and others. I think Pedersoli has bought Euroarms and will be taking over their line of muzzleloaders. However, as I understand it, several imported guns wind up bearing the names of their distributors and not manufacturers, i.e., Dixie Gun Works, Gibbs Rifle Co., Buffalo Arms, Navy Arms, Cherry's, Cimarron, etc.

Unfortunately, I think I will have to visit another website on this question as Civil War guns don't seem to generate much interest here. :shake: Anyhow, thanks for your comments.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hy Hunter was an importer of these guns- I believe made in Japan-- back in the 1960s. The company was not in business that long. Guns that are 50 years old, and not a popular, nor long lived brand are not likely to find much market ID these days. You should not be surprised that the people who follow this forum don't have much info about that gun. I see one of these around here about once every 10 years or so, but there was never a lot of interest in them when they were being sold, either.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I checked the old gun books I have and have only found one reference to a "HY HUNTER INC. Firearms Manufacturing Co. located in Hollywood, CA. No date given for when it was in business. It imported cheap Single Action revolvers and O/U Derringers. These were popular items back in the late 50s, when a bunch of TV westerns featured ever kind of gun from the old West, including, of course, the Peacemaker, by Colt, and the 2-barreled O/U derringers, made by Remington.

There is no written indication in this source that the company sold Zuave Replicas. They did NOT make the guns here, and were strictly an import company. The SA revolvers and derringer were imported from Germany.

If the gun was made anywhere in Europe, it will have Proof marks-either on the top of the breech end of the barrel, or on the bottom of the breech end of the barrel- you have to remove the barrel from the stock to see. There is a table here( CHARTS) under member resources in the index page to this forum that will help you "read" the proof marks you find, if any.

If the gun barrel has NO proof marks, that would be a serious clue, IMHO, that the gun was not made in Europe, but instead was made in Japan. I have never seen modern proof marks on guns made in Japan since WWII.

By All Means, have this gun thoroughly checked out by a reputable Black Powder gunsmith, before you even think of firing the thing.

There were also lots of imported "Wall-Hangers" back in the late 50s, and early 60s, because the FAD of these Western TV shows affected how people wanted to decorate their homes. :youcrazy: :shake: :nono: In about 1958, my father bought his first Flintlock Pistol, and a year later, the same store had some junk imitations of that gun in their guncase.

My brother and I spotted a split in the bottom of the barrel, and pointed it out to the salesmen and the store manager. The Manager called the main store in downtown Chgo, and immediately had the guns pulled from the case, and sent back to the warehouse. He was not the friendliest of people, but the salespeople knew we had done the store a huge favor, and later thanked us.

 

[Zip]

Thanks for that info Paul. I've done a bit more checking and, while the gun does have its fans, there seems to be a question about some of its versions having a "brazed, rather than machined or welded, bolster." This fact apparently led to reports of burst breeches. I'm not sure what a "bolster" is (lock, drum?) and probably couldn't tell a brazed one from others. A member here PM'd me that he has enjoyed his Hy Hunter Zouave for years and it has proved an accurate, reliable gun. Another poster on a different forum speculated that the "safe" H-Hs sported the letter "W" stamped on its bolster. I'm really on the fence on this one.

 

[hawkeye2]

Zip, Hy Hunter was a large importer of firearms in the late 50s and 60s and sold via mail order. You can find his ads in most of the gun magazines of that time and I suspect that GCA 68 probably closed him down. Hy Hunter never manufactured any firearms and his main focus was on military surpless guns. I had two nice 7mm rolling blocks, one of which I traded off a few years back, purchased from them in the early 60s. Their ad listed them for $.XX per pound. I also have a flint pistol imported by Hy Hunter that is mentioned on page 3 of the pistol forum.

The Remington Zouave copy that you are looking at was probably made by Zoli and is a moderate quality Italian import. Navy Arms never manufactured firearms but had them made to sell under their name. ALL Zoli made Zouaves bearing their name or trademark regardless of any other name on them are N-SSA approved and therefore safe to shoot and do not have a W on them. Some muskets(not Zoli)had a bolster (the lump on the right side of the barrel that the nipple screws into) brazed on and these are rumored to have sometimes blown off. The North-South Skirmish Assn. would not approve these for use in their matches and later imports had welded bolsters. Only those barrels with a W on the breach were approved as these had a welded bolster. Brazed bolsters can usually be detected by looking for a thin line of brass/copper color at the junction of the barrel and bolster. It may take some cleaning and magnifaction to see.
The Zouaves were intended to shoot minis and usually had a bore of about .580" with very shallow rifleing. I have no personal experience but I have heard that they shot a patched round ball quite well despite the rifling. $350 is probably a fair price and if there aren't a lot of skirmishers in your area you can probably do better as mini guns don't seem to generate as much interest as Hawkens and long rifles among the muzzleloaders. Most CW reenactors shun the Zouave as it was not issued durring the hostilities.

 

[Zip]

Thanks Hawkeye and everyone else who chimed in here. Ya'll cleared up alot of my questions. I'll give the gun a closer inspection today.

 

[Zip]

Well, the gun didn't have any of the A. Zoli brand markings nor did it have the "W" that later versions had, indicating the bolsters were welded instead of brazed. It had the Hy Hunter stamp and Hollywood, CA address. There were a row of symbols on the left-side breech and it was stamped "Made in Italy." I passed on the gun. Back to the drawing board.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Those "symbols" on the side of the barrel are the PROOF marks. Brazing has a yellow color to it, instead of that silver tone of steel weld. It doesn't blue or brown at all. In fact, it won't hold paint all that well either.

Brazing is done on Cast iron parts such as older car engine blocks. A brazed part is very easy to spot.

In this case, everything is relative. That thin line where the bolster( lump is a good description) joins the barrel is easy to see, if its the result of brazing. You might have to wipe off some residue or scrub the surface with a toothbrush and some toothpaste or scouring powder, but if its brazed, it not hard to see. Most brazing looks like yellow brass. Some have a reddish tint of bronze, or copper. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[nbforestiv]

Has anyone ever hear of such a gun? I was in a local gun store and came across this. Not having my glasses with me, I couldn't read any of the barrel markings. But the sales tag said "Hy Hunter Zouave." It's a .58 caliber, 2-band percussion gun. It has a flip-up/down rear sight. The metal ramrod was threaded at the end opposite the loading jag end. It did not bottom out when I reversed it, as when loading.

From what I could tell, again w/o my glasses, the blondish wooden stock looked in good condition, the lock and hammer too. I cocked the gun and the trigger broke smoothly w/o being overly heavy. The crown and end of internal barrel looked good. The length of pull fit me very well. The gun felt like it weighed around 8-9 lbs. They are asking $350.

My 2009 Standard Catalog of Firearms lists a "Hy-Hunter, Inc." of Burbank, CA. But there is no mention of a Zouave model.

What do you guys think?

I BOUGHT ONE IN 1962, FIRED OVER 500 MINI BALLS THROUGHT IT , NO PROBLEMS, NEVER HEARD OF ANY BURST BARRELS, HUNTED BLACK BEAR IN CANADA, GREAT GUN. PAID $62.50 FOR THE GUN FROM HY HUNTER OUT OF CALIFORNIA, OF COURSE IN THOSE DAYS MUZZEL LOADERS WERE CHEAP, EVEN ORIGINALS, MY FIRST ONE WAS A 1846 HARPERS FERRY, A .69 CAL. SMOOTH BORE, PAID $40.00 FOR IT, I WAS TAUGHT BY WES KINDIG IN LODI, OHIO, HE HAD THE LOG CABIN SPORT SHOP WHEN IT WAS IN A ROOM IN THE LOG CABINE HE LIVED IN , BEFORE THEY BUILT THE BIG STORE. I AM 78 YEARS OLD NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH ANY GOOD MUZZEL LOADER!