Hypothetically speaking...

[ppb]

...can a pure lead .54 caliber ball (.530" dia.) be swaged down to .50 caliber (.490" dia.) and be safely shot in a .50 cal. flint/cap lock muzzleloader?
The question relates to problems that might come up by the additional weight (@ 47 gr) of the new projectile - considering the re-sized ball would be patched and lubed in the same manner as a regular round ball and seated on a charge that would be equal to a regular load for the round ball.. I understand the heavier ball will need to be oriented correctly to be seated and there is a good probability it will cause pressure to increase.

Has anyone tried this?

Give me a moment to step out of the way and find cover...

 

[rocullen]

me thinks there would be some lead pushed out of the 50 caliber mold when done. Maybe not 47 but a high percentage of it.

 

[EC121]

I assume you are running the ball through a tapered sizer. The additional weight won't matter. People routinely shoot 360gr. T/C Maxi-balls in their .50cal. T/C rifles. By swaging the ball you are making a semi-bullet out of a round ball. Using the round ball twist barrel you might run into a stability problem.

 

[FishDFly]

Do not think lead will compress that much, no matter the pressure of the swage machine.

The other thought, why?

 

[rocullen]

Do not think lead will compress that much, no matter the pressure of the swage machine.

The other thought, why?

well, lead will compress, but it takes high dollar, high tech to do so. then it becomes stronger than steel, so that would eliminate it from muzzleloader use.

 

[FishDFly]

A tool that the average person here is not going to have access to.

 

[rocullen]

A tool that the average person here is not going to have access to.

hence high dollar, high tech.

 

[ppb]

Do not think lead will compress that much, no matter the pressure of the swage machine.

The other thought, why?

I don't know if the lead can take that kind of manipulation or not... I wouldn't know where to start to try to figure it out.
I had re-read an article in Blackpowder Hunting ( the Spring Issue from 2000, published by International Blackpowder Hunting Association) by Ross Seyfried. In it, he wrote about swaging down round balls to accommodate rifle calibers for which no commercially made molds or balls are available.

In some locations, hunting with muzzleloaders is regulated by projectile weight, not caliber. So, for example, a .50 cal. ball doesn't make the weight class for elk, but a .54 cal. ball does. So, hypothetically, is resizing a larger ball to get into a particular weight class worth the effort? My thought is that it is not, otherwise it would be common practice and we'd hear about it more often.

 

[jdw276]

hence high dollar, high tech.

I have always heard that type of high pressure will turn lead into gold? Not stronger than steel.

 

[tenngun]

You might want to look in to the Ball-et offered at least by track. Very short hollow base minie. It’s short and
Light so can stabilize with RB twist but adds enough weight to give your .50 an extra boost.
I had a .50 cal barrel that shredded patches. I lapped it, I used steel wool. I went small with thick patches and big with thin patches and it just wouldn’t shoot.
But the Ball-it shot well.

 

[tenngun]

Just looked it up, their .50 comes in at 240 grains, a .54 weight and a bit

 

[ppb]

Just looked it up, their .50 comes in at 240 grains, a .54 weight and a bit

Thank you! I knew they were around but failed to make any sort of connection for them to this application.
I’ll need to check into that.

 

[Metalshaper]

I was once given a box of .36 slugs, because the Gift-er knew my gun was a .36.. only problem my barrel is an old Numrich barrel and is actually closer to a .357-8
in reality, so they would not initially fit. I/we took a flat couple of flat plates and rolled them just a 'weee' bit. I could then start them and they shot reasonably well? Not a practicle thing but on the fly it was was fun to muck about with them..

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[FishDFly]

The old phrase, you cannot put 4 pounds in a 3 pound bag comes to mind.

 

[FPDoc]

...can a pure lead .54 caliber ball (.530" dia.) be swaged down to .50 caliber (.490" dia.) and be safely shot in a .50 cal. flint/cap lock muzzleloader?
The question relates to problems that might come up by the additional weight (@ 47 gr) of the new projectile - considering the re-sized ball would be patched and lubed in the same manner as a regular round ball and seated on a charge that would be equal to a regular load for the round ball.. I understand the heavier ball will need to be oriented correctly to be seated and there is a good probability it will cause pressure to increase.

Has anyone tried this?

Give me a moment to step out of the way and find cover...

It's possible and not too difficult to make a .530 dia lead ball into a .490 dia ball. I wrote a long response but deleted it since no one prob wants to hear it anyway but not hard to do it. I thought of 4-5 ways to do it. Easiest is to take a fairly coarse file and file around its little tummy until it's .490 dia. That wasn't one of the 4-5 ways. Depends on what you are trying to do and why. Looking at posts posted while I was writing and I agree 2 flat plates to roll them should work.

P.S. You can safely shoot gravel out of a muzzleloader so pretty sure any ball you can get down on the powder will work.. for values of work.

 

[rocullen]

I have always heard that type of high pressure will turn lead into gold? Not stronger than steel.

Lead stronger than steel

A combined team of researchers from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in the U.S. and Atomic Weapons Establishment in the U.K. has found that rapidly compressing lead to planetary-core type pressures makes it stronger than steel. In their paper published in the journal Physical Review Letters, the group describes how they managed to compress the metal so strongly without melting it.​

 

[rocullen]

Just looked it up, their .50 comes in at 240 grains, a .54 weight and a bit

490 lead balls weigh ~180, 530 weigh ~230

 

[kemart17]

...can a pure lead .54 caliber ball (.530" dia.) be swaged down to .50 caliber (.490" dia.) and be safely shot in a .50 cal. flint/cap lock muzzleloader?
The question relates to problems that might come up by the additional weight (@ 47 gr) of the new projectile - considering the re-sized ball would be patched and lubed in the same manner as a regular round ball and seated on a charge that would be equal to a regular load for the round ball.. I understand the heavier ball will need to be oriented correctly to be seated and there is a good probability it will cause pressure to increase.

Has anyone tried this?

Give me a moment to step out of the way and find cover...

Why????

 

[jdw276]

Lead stronger than steel

A combined team of researchers from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in the U.S. and Atomic Weapons Establishment in the U.K. has found that rapidly compressing lead to planetary-core type pressures makes it stronger than steel. In their paper published in the journal Physical Review Letters, the group describes how they managed to compress the metal so strongly without melting it.​

I prefer gold.....

 

[ppb]

Why????

Paragraph 2, comment #8