I am Having a Scottish Musket Made

[Tacksman45]

Some time back, I had ordered a few odds and ends from the National Museums of Scotland Shop, including this book:

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I'll have to admit, I haven't actually read it... just looked at the pictures, became distracted by some other interest, and put the book on the shelf. I pulled it out today just to see what it might have on Scottish muskets, and there isn't much. Just a photo of one snaphaunce long gun dating to 1599, with a brief caption. However, the text did say that in Edinburgh and Canongate, fruitwoods were generally used for stocks on long guns, but in Dundee, brazil wood was the norm! Brazil wood was evidently being imported in quantity by various artisans for dyestuffs, and was readily available to the gunmakers.

Despite the limited information on long guns, this interesting little book does show a good many Scottish iron-stocked pistols, at least nine by my count, with pretty good detailed photos of both sides of each gun, as well as detail shots of locks for a few of them. The author suggested that the Incorporation of Hammermen (a blacksmithing guild formed as early as 1483) may have imposed restrictions on blacksmiths doing woodwork. So, rather than contract the stock work out to carpenters, the clever blacksmiths made their own stocks of iron. I had often wondered why the Scots favored iron-stocked pistols, and I guess that explains it.

I ordered my copy of the book directly from the National Museums of Scotland (NMS) a number of years ago. I'm not exactly sure when, but it is evidently out of print at this time. I looked the book up online, and prices for used copies will shock you. The NMS is evidently closed for the time being, due to the pandemic, and I was unable to even get in to the online museum shop. Interested persons may try to contact them to see if they might have a copy or two left over for sale. However, the bottom line, as far as this discussion is concerned, is that there is very little in this book to add to the fund of knowledge with regard to Scottish muskets, other than the note about woods used for stocking these interesting weapons.

For what it's worth...

Notchy Bob

Bob Thanks so much for the information! I had no idea this book exists, I would love to be able to read it! Very interesting information about the Brazilwood being imported for dye making. This would indicate that the wood was likely indeed Pernambuco wood since it yields a red dye pigment. There was always intrigue going on amongst the guilds in Scotland. More likely the carpenter's guilds did not want the gunsmith's working with wood, so the gunsmiths found a way around them by making the all steel pistols. The same thing happened between the hammermen's guild and the founder's guild because the founders would try to make brass basket-hilts for swords and gun parts on the side to take business from them. Kelvin discusses this in the Scottish Pistols book. Thanks again!

 

[Tacksman45]

I imagine most Scottish muskets were collected and destroyed by the English after 1745. Pistols were probably hidden away .

That is one possibility, certainly a lot of arms were destroyed or confiscated after the 45 Uprising. However it is also possible that not many of these ever existed in the first place. Also these were pretty old by the time of the 45 so few if any if any of these were actually used in the 45 Uprising.

 

[TFoley]

For reference - 'Scotch' is the drink. 'Scottish' describes people and things from Scotland.

 

[DaveC]

Yes. Scots or Scottish. "The kilt" is plural of kilt too.

 

[Doc Ivory]

Now this build I'm anxious to see progress.

 

[Rudyard]

Hmmm All happening. Re Brazil wood its heavy as lead & getting any size of it other than for pistols is difficult to find .Go with 'Wanit tre ' vis Walnut . Ive made two more since I wrote last not sure why just like them The Snaphance locks are a tussle not easy to wing as you have too. though the little Booklet written by the late Claude Blair & the very well Robert Savage is a priceless booklet so a must as it shows the internals .Its put out but Museum Restoratation Service of the late lamented Jim Gooding shouldn't be too hard to find & You Need it.
Regards Rudyard

 

[PathfinderNC]

I don't know a thing about muskets from Scotland, but I'm looking forward to learning more.

I am a bit familiar with pernambuco. This was called "brazilwood" (pronounced brazzle wood) back in the day and was much sought after for use in making red dyes. It is also the wood of choice for violin bows. A buddy of mine is a professional archetier, or violin bow maker. He has given me some of his pernambuco scrap, which I have used to make assorted small stuff like knife handles and pistol rods. While it has a lovely color and takes a beautiful finish, pernambuco is the hardest, heaviest wood I have ever worked. It is now on the CITES listing and is very difficult to find. A plank large enough for a gunstock, if you could find a suitable piece, would be worth a king's ransom and would be extremely heavy. It was not cheap back in the 17th and 18th centuries, either, and (no offense intended) with the Scot's legendary thriftiness, I would think it an unlikely choice for his musket stock.

There is a very similar wood, in the same genus, marketed as "chakte viga" or "Mexican pernambuco." I have some of this, also. While I'm sure there is some variability in color from one tree to the next, the chakte viga I have is a little lighter color than true pernambuco. I understand chakte viga is plentiful enough to be used for fence posts in Mexico, but what is imported is pretty expensive.

Many things are possible and life is full of surprises, but I would think pernambuco or "brazilwood" would be a very unusual choice for a musket stock.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck on this interesting project, and hope you'll keep us informed of your progress!

Notchy Bob

Chalks Vega is a pretty ogangish brown, and very hard. I use it on dulcimer fingerboards. After a year it just turns very dark brown. It would be far too brittle and heavy for a gun stock, especially a musket, not to even talk about historical accuracy!

 

[Tacksman45]

Chalks Vega is a pretty ogangish brown, and very hard. I use it on dulcimer fingerboards. After a year it just turns very dark brown. It would be far too brittle and heavy for a gun stock, especially a musket, not to even talk about historical accuracy!

Thanks for the reply Pathfinder!

 

[Notchy Bob]

Chakte Viga is a pretty orangish brown, and very hard. I use it on dulcimer fingerboards. After a year it just turns very dark brown. It would be far too brittle and heavy for a gun stock, especially a musket, not to even talk about historical accuracy!

I would agree with all of that. Chakte viga is in the same genus as pernambuco and the wood is similar in many respects. There may be some tree-to-tree variability in the wood, but of the small pieces of chakte viga and real Brazilian pernambuco I have worked with, the "real thing" is more reddish and the chakte viga has been as you describe, more orangish when freshly cut. Both age to a beautiful reddish brown, and both are extremely hard, heavy woods. The real pernambuco is the preferred wood for high-end violin bows, for its combination of weight, resonance, stability, and elasticity. My friend, the archetier, told me he has not tried chakte viga for bows, as he bought a good stock of Brazilian pernambuco before the embargo and he is pretty well fixed for bow wood.

However, we have the two references to "brazilwood" stocks mentioned in the previous posts. Personally, I think these references may reflect a historical error. As @PathfinderNC and @Rudyard both pointed out, it would make a ridiculously heavy stock. Maybe some other dark, reddish wood was mistaken for brazilwood because of the color.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Rudyard]

Perhaps it suited some for pistols but agree very heavy for long guns . I stocked a 45 rifle Scot's Snaphance in black walnut it took a red ish stain and has been just fine I hunted with it often enough . They look ungainly to some modern eyes but I see them as having great charm, But then I don't have modern eyes . & suffer from having' Emagination 'enough to go beyound the norm. Iv' e never seen a' Traditions' or a Kibler kit no paint by numbers for this hiverant .But then its whatever grabs you I suppose . & each to his own .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

For reference - 'Scotch' is the drink. 'Scottish' describes people and things from Scotland.

And a fine drink it is!

 

[Mayne1713]

Was this built? Please, FYI see the Scottish Musket I have in the classifieds, you may find it intersting, it is the same musket as you are building and the builder copied the lock from the one in the museum. I would love to hear how you made out

 

[Rudyard]

Was this built? Please, FYI see the Scottish Musket I have in the classifieds, you may find it intersting, it is the same musket as you are building and the builder copied the lock from the one in the museum. I would love to hear how you made out

No photo in the' for sales' what is it the gun you mention if you have it a photo would help others wise not enough info to say anything Of the very few longarm Scots arms surviving only one looks conventional the rest are distinctly Scots Snaphance & early & later 17c styles . Rudyard who dosn't know all the answers but can talk fast & makes them anyway !. hunts with them too the balls fly into game and it succumbs without considering the gun it came from .
Rudyard

 

[Tacksman45]

Was this built? Please, FYI see the Scottish Musket I have in the classifieds, you may find it intersting, it is the same musket as you are building and the builder copied the lock from the one in the museum. I would love to hear how you made out

It is currently being built now. The one I am basing my piece on is LNA32 or R-12 from Scottish Firearms by Blair and Woosnam-Savage. This one looks more like R-24 and R-14 (which is also from the Seafield Collection.) The builder did a good job on this one! Is the lock actually a Snaphaunce and fully functional? What type of wood is the stock made from? What is the barrel length, caliber, and weight?

 

[Rudyard]

It is currently being built now. The one I am basing my piece on is LNA32 or R-12 from Scottish Firearms by Blair and Woosnam-Savage. This one looks more like R-24 and R-14 (which is also from the Seafield Collection.) The builder did a good job on this one! Is the lock actually a Snaphaunce and fully functional? What type of wood is the stock made from? What is the barrel length, caliber, and weight?

All very interesting No photos but they are mentioned . None of my work left these shores except parts .& three pistols I've only made four Scots pistols three where Lemon Butts & one issue all steel .two snaphance,long guns three altered to English lock & two' Lunt werk' pure conjectural as no original survives think that covers them, I lose count '.Luntwerk' being matchlocks one a common lock & one Snap Matchlock on Venetion lines & a favourite & two rifled where pet hunting rifles .Why ? I like them ;good reason .? Ide like to think the RA at Leeds might want one or two I can't take them with me. originals are rarer that Rocking horse poo & they do buy such items for displays & performances .
Rudyard
PS Have now seen the photos I won't comment but might send pics of my work. Such an interesting topic to me at least .
Regards Rudyard

 

[rickystl]

Was this built? Please, FYI see the Scottish Musket I have in the classifieds, you may find it intersting, it is the same musket as you are building and the builder copied the lock from the one in the museum. I would love to hear how you made out

That is a great looking Scottish musket in the Classifieds. If I wasn't retired, and already have too many guns, I would grab it. LOL And a bargain for a total custom like that. Probably won't see another similar offered for sale for decades.
Jeff Miller does great work. He recently finished a pair of Spanish pistols I posted in this section you can view to get another idea of his work. Pistols were built from catalog photos and an artist's sketch. Can't speak highly enough of Jeff.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

By the way....who made the barrel ???

 

[Tacksman45]

Well folks she is ready! This is the Scottish National Longarm that Dale Nincehelser agreed to build for me. I am very happy with how this project turned out. Let me know what you all think.

Tacksman

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Super work!

 

[Tacksman45]

By the way....who made the barrel ???

Bobby Hoyt