I can’t get my Whitworth’s bore truly clean

[Widows Son]

Hi, I hope everyone is doing well. This question may be more appropriate in the ‘general muzzleloading’ section as it’s about cleaning and rust prevention. However I don’t have this problem with my other muzzleloaders with standard rifling, so I submit it here.

I clean all of my arms, modern and historical, to a high standard. I shoot black powder only, no substitutes. I don’t use any petroleum products. My muzzleloading shotgun and longrifle clean easily and don’t rust in the bores. But this damned Whitworth is never really clean or rust-free and I don’t know what else to do about it.

I have a hexagonal patch jag to help get into the corners of the bore. I clean between shots with a moose-milk of soluble cutting oil and water. At home I clean with warm soapy water pumped through the barrel. I run a bore brush several times through it and then rinse. I use a couple of dozen absorbent flannel patches to clean and dry and oil. The next day I check and get several dirty and rust colour patches from the bore! I’ve tried several oils and all with about the same results. Ballistol and Hoppes oils seem to work better than others. As I said earlier, this cleaning regime works great on my other arms.

My P-H Whitworth #191 is a favourite of mine and I’ve never regretted buying it. However it is surely the most challenging and finicky firearm I’ve ever used. It’s hard to clean, hard to develop a load for and is very prone to misfires. I am more and more convinced that the historical stories about the amazing accuracy and long range efficacy of the Whitworth rifle are fabricated BS.

Okay, that was my rant. I needed to get that off my chest!

Getting back on topic, does anyone have some advice on cleaning and rust prevention that I haven’t mentioned?

Many thanks for your consideration.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I use plain old tap water and flannel patches to clean my heavy target rifles, followed up with Barricade afterward. No soap, no heat, nothing else. No brush, just a jag that is smaller than the caliber so it pulls fouling out with the patch and doesn't ram it into the breech (where it can cause ignition problems) or into the rifling. You might want to try a .40 calber round jag with a flannel patch. My largest rifle is .56 caliber, and I use a .50 caliber jag with a large flannel patch I cut myself.

 

[alcessapiens]

I had a funny little flexible brass scraper that came with mine. It looked like a 6 petal flower sort of. I had 6 of them with the rifle but I have no idea who made them. It is a damned picky barrel to fully clean.

 

[brazosland]

Use a shotgun bore mop. It will get into those corners better.

 

[TreeMan]

If your natural rust prevention isnt working after cleaning use petroleum products. That nonsense about not using petroleum products after cleaning is just that….nonsense. I’ve used wd40 for decades and whatever else I might have handy including motor oil and transmission fluid. No you can’t use it for patch lube or cleaning between shots. When you’re ready to shoot again fold up a cleaning patch and gently lower your hammer on it over the nipple. Blast the barrel with brake or carb cleaner. Dump it out a few times. Let a little trickle out the nipple. Let the brake/carb cleaner evaporate then you’re ready to shoot. The ones that tell you that you can’t use petroleum products are the ones who will still swear you have to season a modern steel barrel with bore butter. Being historically correct is one thing but letting my bores rust is another.

 

[TFoley]

If your natural rust prevention isnt working after cleaning use petroleum products. That nonsense about not using petroleum products after cleaning is just that….nonsense. I’ve used wd40 for decades and whatever else I might have handy including motor oil and transmission fluid. No you can’t use it for patch lube or cleaning between shots. When you’re ready to shoot again fold up a cleaning patch and gently lower your hammer on it over the nipple. Blast the barrel with brake or carb cleaner. Dump it out a few times. Let a little trickle out the nipple. Let the brake/carb cleaner evaporate then you’re ready to shoot. The ones that tell you that you can’t use petroleum products are the ones who will still swear you have to season a modern steel barrel with bore butter. Being historically correct is one thing but letting my bores rust is another.

From my own experience of Whitworth barrel cleaning, going back to 1986, I fully sympathise with the OP and his problems cleaning up that hexagonal bore. The originals often had a six-sided scraper, and some clever folks actually make one. AFAIK there is no commercial item made these days, but it's not for want of asking. I've never used any kind of a metal brush, but a soft mop, and plenty of elbow grease, will usually do the job just fine. I wipe out between shots, too, as well as after loading, and before shooting. That seems to work just fine as well.

Leaving petroleum-based grease around a percussion REVOLVER will get it baked on - that's for sure. Just like carbon build-up in a car engine. Non-petroleum-based stuff is better - I use Shakepeare spinning reel grease on my C&B revolver, the same as I do on my Swiss rifles.

 

[Widows Son]

If your natural rust prevention isnt working after cleaning use petroleum products. That nonsense about not using petroleum products after cleaning is just that….nonsense. I’ve used wd40 for decades and whatever else I might have handy including motor oil and transmission fluid. No you can’t use it for patch lube or cleaning between shots. When you’re ready to shoot again fold up a cleaning patch and gently lower your hammer on it over the nipple. Blast the barrel with brake or carb cleaner. Dump it out a few times. Let a little trickle out the nipple. Let the brake/carb cleaner evaporate then you’re ready to shoot. The ones that tell you that you can’t use petroleum products are the ones who will still swear you have to season a modern steel barrel with bore butter. Being historically correct is one thing but letting my bores rust is another.

Thank you for your considered advice.

I do use some petroleum products; Ballistol or Hoppes oil for rust prevention (which works great on all my other arms). And whilst I am setting up my shooting supplies I pour a little shellite down the barrel and let it sit.

I‘m probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, as the rust in the barrel is surface rust only in the hexagonal corners of the bore. It just bothers me that I can’t get it out of that particular rifle.

 

[Widows Son]

The originals often had a six-sided scraper, and some clever folks actually make one

I made a hexagonal jag out of a .50 caliber jag, which works fine for cleaning between shots.

I was thinking about some wettable fine sandpaper/emery cloth on that jag would give a good scouring and get into the corners. I don’t know if an emery paper of sufficient durability exists. The normal hardware store stuff shreds and falls apart. Maybe auto-body panel beater stuff would work?

 

[Widows Son]

You might want to try a .40 calber round jag with a flannel patch.

Thank for for that suggestion. It surely can’t hurt

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Thank for for that suggestion. It surely can’t hurt

I had a rifle with Henry rifling and it worked well with that as well.

 

[TFoley]

I made a hexagonal jag out of a .50 caliber jag, which works fine for cleaning between shots.

I was thinking about some wettable fine sandpaper/emery cloth on that jag would give a good scouring and get into the corners. I don’t know if an emery paper of sufficient durability exists. The normal hardware store stuff shreds and falls apart. Maybe auto-body panel beater stuff would work?

The very last thing you want to do to the precious and irreplaceable bore is to use any kind of quartzite/carbide abrasive in it.

 

[Collector54]

I have used simple green on my Whitworth with good results. I have also used dawn dish soap. I always use the TC yellow lube to finish the cleaning and for storage. I have never had rust or corrosion issues. I have owned the rifle for maybe 30 years now and used it for as many deer seasons. I've more trouble with the nipple needing replacement. Finally found a source and have several. Accuracy suffers when the nipple channel wears out. Just my two cents worth.

 

[TFoley]

I have used simple green on my Whitworth with good results. I have also used dawn dish soap. I always use the TC yellow lube to finish the cleaning and for storage. I have never had rust or corrosion issues. I have owned the rifle for maybe 30 years now and used it for as many deer seasons. I've more trouble with the nipple needing replacement. Finally found a source and have several. Accuracy suffers when the nipple channel wears out. Just my two cents worth.

Get a platinum-lined nipple - there's a gentleman in the USA who makes them for half the price we pay here in UK.

 

[Bad Karma]

I have used simple green on my Whitworth with good results. I have also used dawn dish soap. I always use the TC yellow lube to finish the cleaning and for storage. I have never had rust or corrosion issues. I have owned the rifle for maybe 30 years now and used it for as many deer seasons. I've more trouble with the nipple needing replacement. Finally found a source and have several. Accuracy suffers when the nipple channel wears out. Just my two cents worth.

Buffalo Arms Company has the platinum lined nipples.

 

[Bad Karma]

I made a hexagonal jag out of a .50 caliber jag, which works fine for cleaning between shots.

I was thinking about some wettable fine sandpaper/emery cloth on that jag would give a good scouring and get into the corners. I don’t know if an emery paper of sufficient durability exists. The normal hardware store stuff shreds and falls apart. Maybe auto-body panel beater stuff would work?

NO! Do not use ANYTHING that abrasive in your rifle bore! You could wrap your jag in four ought steel wool and clean the bore with it. I‘ve done as many as a hundred strokes with this and really smoothed a bore which had some chatter left from cutting the rifling. Do not make a practice of cleaning a rifle that way. A well fitted jag and cleaning patches are all that’s needed.

 

[Collector54]

I'll have to look at Buffalo arms. Thanks

 

[SDSmlf]

Get a platinum-lined nipple - there's a gentleman in the USA who makes them for half the price we pay here in UK.

Maybe Buffalo Arms.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/search/?q=platinum lined nipple

 

[Widows Son]

Thank you for your advice about avoiding emery paper in the bore. I didn’t think it would be harmful, since a Whitworth is actually a smooth bore with a twist.

I’ll persevere with the 0000 steel wool.

 

[Kno-ie]

Widows Son
If I may suggest try using Bronze wool or the Green scrub pads. You've noted in the past that there was some pitting in the area just above the breech plug. Using 0000 steel wool is known to break down in use. Those tiny bits may very well be pushed into the pits causing a false positive when they to turn to rust.
The area above the breech plug that is pitted is in constant bombardment of hot gases, trapped moisture and fouling build up. After cleaning I'd plug the nipple and use a product like Kroil and fill that area and let it soak for a day or two. After lubing the bore on my barrels I soak a patch in Kroil and leave it in the bore for a day or two then go back and wipe the bore with fresh patches of Kroil. I've had good luck using this method. For long terms storage I use a product call Fluid Film.
Good luck, Kno-ie

 

[TFoley]

I soak a patch in Kroil

Might not be sold in Australia - good stuff though.