I.D. "Bear Claw" Chris Lapp's Rifle?

[yellowhammer]

OK so I still obsess over that movie 52 years distant, so sue me LOL . Kidding, don't flame me.

Everybody comments on Jerimiah's Hawken; nary a word about Bear Claw's. I looked closely, and although the focus is never very clear, we can identify some of his weapon's characteristics. I say "weapon" as opposed to "rifle" or "smoothbore", because how could you ever tell that? I detect a percussion hammer, so I put it in the Percussion forum.

1. It's got a big bore, whatever it is:

2. It's full stock gun, brass mounted, with a curiously short nose cap and a brass ramrod tip:

 

[yellowhammer]

3. Looks like a percussion hammer to me. Sort of a low straight comb with no "Roman" nose to it. Interesting white wrapping:

4. Wrap appears to be white fur - it flutters as he runs from the "Griz". You can also see the percussion hammer:

 

[yellowhammer]

So, what's the consensus? I say a 42"-44" Lancaster percussion conversion, in .54 or .58.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I'd say that's as good a guess as any!

Now I surprised myself a tad the other day whilst sitting out in the cold VT woods waiting for a deer to come by, as I happened to look down at (not INTO, lol!) the muzzle of my 54 and it appeared quite larger than one would otherwise think, for being a smidge over a 1/2" bore.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Anything made in an Italian factory back then, short, and full stock..., HECK might be CVA and Spanish....

The real question is, WHERE is Paints-His-Shirt-Red's SxS Smoothbore x Rifle gun, and who made that?

LD

 

[yellowhammer]

Paints His Shirt Red is obviously a rifle connoisseur, for sure. Probably took a couple of horses and a travois-load of plews for him to procure it in trade from the wealthy gentleman who brought it all the way out from St. Louis.

LOL we tend to forget its just a movie, but its fun to immerse into it and read in stuff like that. For instance, later in the movie while setting up camp, Bear Claw relates that he once traded his squaw for a Hawken gun. So, why revert back to a long barreled conversion Lancaster, an obviously less handy, less robust and less reliable rifle (especially for grizzly bear hunting in the brush) than a Hawken?

 

[Dave Dworshak]

Nice wood and brass.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I would think that the ball in the smooth bored barrel would be quite effective on the bear in the brush.

 

[Banjoman]

That second photo finally proves it! My Traditions Kentucky percussion rifle IS what the real mountain men carried! Yeah! Which means they probably also used Pyrodex!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

For instance, later in the movie while setting up camp, Bear Claw relates that he once traded his squaw for a Hawken gun. So, why revert back to a long barreled conversion Lancaster, an obviously less handy, less robust and less reliable rifle (especially for grizzly bear hunting in the brush) than a Hawken?

HOLY BEANS I've missed that all these years.


Excellent point, and demonstrates that the folks making the film didn't know much about black powder. Add to that Johnson's 30 caliber instead of 30 Bore gun mentioned by the Narrator (iirc)

LD

 

[William Sublette]

Paints His Shirt Red is obviously a rifle connoisseur, for sure. Probably took a couple of horses and a travois-load of plews for him to procure it in trade from the wealthy gentleman who brought it all the way out from St. Louis.

LOL we tend to forget its just a movie, but its fun to immerse into it and read in stuff like that. For instance, later in the movie while setting up camp, Bear Claw relates that he once traded his squaw for a Hawken gun. So, why revert back to a long barreled conversion Lancaster, an obviously less handy, less robust and less reliable rifle (especially for grizzly bear hunting in the brush) than a Hawken?

People swam the river and lost their stuff all the time.

Robbed by natives?


Whiskey & Gambling?


Friends , rifles, horses....easy come, easy go.

You can worry about it, or survive it.

 

[yellowhammer]

Point well taken, William Sublette

 

[flconch53]

Anything made in an Italian factory back then, short, and full stock..., HECK might be CVA and Spanish....

The real question is, WHERE is Paints-His-Shirt-Red's SxS Smoothbore x Rifle gun, and who made that?

View attachment 360183

LD

I would say that is a rifle on 1 barrel and a smoothbore on the other.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Paints His Shirt Red is obviously a rifle connoisseur, for sure. Probably took a couple of horses and a travois-load of plews for him to procure it in trade from the wealthy gentleman who brought it all the way out from St. Louis.

LOL we tend to forget its just a movie, but its fun to immerse into it and read in stuff like that. For instance, later in the movie while setting up camp, Bear Claw relates that he once traded his squaw for a Hawken gun. So, why revert back to a long barreled conversion Lancaster, an obviously less handy, less robust and less reliable rifle (especially for grizzly bear hunting in the brush) than a Hawken?

I would say he probably got a scalp at the same time he acquired that gun

 

[aussie pete]

Paints His Shirt Red is obviously a rifle connoisseur, for sure. Probably took a couple of horses and a travois-load of plews for him to procure it in trade from the wealthy gentleman who brought it all the way out from St. Louis.

LOL we tend to forget its just a movie, but its fun to immerse into it and read in stuff like that. For instance, later in the movie while setting up camp, Bear Claw relates that he once traded his squaw for a Hawken gun. So, why revert back to a long barreled conversion Lancaster, an obviously less handy, less robust and less reliable rifle (especially for grizzly bear hunting in the brush) than a Hawken?

He lost the Hawken in deep snow when he was being chased by a Griz. Had to go back to using his old Italian import - Director's cut -
Just messing with you ...

Pete

 

[William Sublette]

In my youth I thought JJ was the best movie, and The Mountain Men with Heston, and Kieth was a little too cheesy.



Now I like the MM better, it's more historically on point. The landscape looks more accurate.

Now JJ seems like the cheesy one...like a fantasy fiction.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I would say that is a rifle on 1 barrel and a smoothbore on the other.

Yes! Hence the label "SxS Smoothbore x Rifle gun" in my post.

LD