I.D. & Information

[NEF308]

I have what I believe is a .45 Cal. Ultra Hi Kentucky style shotgun. It's a smooth bore 34.5" barrel, with what L&R Locks, described as a shotgun type lock. Very similar to a Jukar rifle, with some differences, factory welded closed breech, molded to the barrel powder drum & a wide tin-like brass coupling between stock & forearm. Only markings are Made in Spain on barrel. But I think Ultra Hi was Japan ? Any & all information on this gun appreciated. Thank-you.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Some pictures are very helpful.
I have never heard of a welded breech :hmm:

 

[nwtradegun]

sounds like one some one made need pics to know for sure

 

[Rifleman1776]

Some pictures are very helpful.
I have never heard of a welded breech :hmm:

Ultra-High, and others in the early '70s did some very strange things when building ml rifles. Welded breeches did happen, as did two part barrels and more.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have heard of the two piece barrels but not the welded breech.
I wonder how they were done?

 

[54ball]

arc welder

 

[NEF308]

I'm not sure how to post photos. The gun seems to have been manufactured this way, it does not appear to be a kit. If it was, someone did a really nice job on the barrel bluing & stock work. It seem to have been shot but a few times, maybe. I'll try to get some photo's up tomorrow. L&R Locks described the percussion lock as a shotgun style, but unknown. Thanks for the responses, until tomorrow.

 

[coloradoclyde]

arc welder

Not quite what I meant.

Threaded and welded?
Just a plug welded in?
Build up weld to form a plug?
Is the plug cross pinned?
mig weld?
Tig weld?

Inqiuring minds want to know. :grin:

 

[bpd303]

Most of the Japanese made guns, the breech was screwed in then tack welded to prevent their removal.

Ultra HI was an importer and brought in guns from several makers. If it says made in Spain it probably was built by Ardesa or AMR. Never heard of a Kentucky shotgun, but someone may have had it bored out to smoothbore rifle. What gauge do you think it is?

 

[NEF308]

I wish I knew how to post the pictures, but that's something my nephew will have to help me with tomorrow, sorry. The best description I can give you is there is not even a seam where a breech plug was screwed in. I have an old Jukar .45 Kentucky rifled. The 2 guns are very similar as far as the woodwork & brass are concerned. the lock is different & L&R said it looks like a shotgun lock but was unknown to them. The real difference is the Barrel, which scares me. From the breech plug working forward, the plug area has no visible seems, the tang and powder drum seem to be part of the barrel, no rear sight, no dovetails or under lugs or pins, the barrel is held in place by the tang bolt & the brass (muzzle) nose piece. Like I said it's 34.5" long, the front sight is a solid brass, appears to screw it & is approx. 1/4"h x 1/8"w x 1/2"l & both the holes for the front sight & nose piece are drilled & tapped all the way thru the barrel. Pictures soon.

 

[NEF308]

pic 1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIweo_zYiRpODRUQ20yS1VjNDVzcTd0Ykw5eURMUkFvcHZZ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIweo_zYiRpV3AxMFoxNkxZZjVacG84b0VEc1I1blRYalNB/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIweo_zYiRpYmYzaVZRbGxFbVFhcXcyaTBYQTBYVkJhWmM4/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIweo_zYiRpWVNzRmFvcXJRVloxQmlucTNFcFpXNmFYWDl3/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIweo_zYiRpQXJ6TFlwWDU2b3p4YUw4S3JtSzNtMmdhWHAw/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzIweo_zYiRpVU9jT1lPNnJOQzZLM2xLMlF6LWlUUVlOTU84/view?usp=sharing

 

[coloradoclyde]

That looks like a patent breech to me(not welded).

 

[NEF308]

C Clyde, Could you please explain this to me not real familiar with BP's or Muzzleloading but have tinkered with a few.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I will do my best.
A standard breech plug is just a plug with a tang that is threaded into the end of the barrel and then the bolster is threaded in though the side of the barrel or flintlock vent is drilled and maybe a liner is installed.
In a Patent breech there is no separate side bolster (it is manufactured as a single Unit.) the nipple is threaded into the breech plug and then the whole works is threaded into the barrel .there are also flint patent breeches.

Standard breech plug

Patent style breech plug.

 

[NEF308]

Got it. So there is a seam somewhere at the breech end even though it's not visible. Any idea to the make or manufacturer of this gun ? The closest thing I've seen is Ultra Hi. Someone suggested on another forum that it was a smooth bore rifle not a shotgun, which I've never heard of. It is a .45 Caliber smooth bore gun. And thanks again everyone for the responses & help, I'm freshly retired & needed a hobby & this just became my most important information site.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I wish I knew how to post the pictures, but that's something my nephew will have to help me with tomorrow, sorry. The best description I can give you is there is not even a seam where a breech plug was screwed in. I have an old Jukar .45 Kentucky rifled. The 2 guns are very similar as far as the woodwork & brass are concerned. the lock is different & L&R said it looks like a shotgun lock but was unknown to them. The real difference is the Barrel, which scares me. From the breech plug working forward, the plug area has no visible seems, the tang and powder drum seem to be part of the barrel, no rear sight, no dovetails or under lugs or pins, the barrel is held in place by the tang bolt & the brass (muzzle) nose piece. Like I said it's 34.5" long, the front sight is a solid brass, appears to screw it & is approx. 1/4"h x 1/8"w x 1/2"l & both the holes for the front sight & nose piece are drilled & tapped all the way thru the barrel. Pictures soon.

I am very leery of a rifle with screw holes other than the breech plug or the drum. Yes, a touch hole is a direct opening right at the breech. Are any other screw holes drilled and tapped through the barrel? These holes can catch the patch or build up rust right at the muzzle hurting the accuracy.

Cut the muzzle back and properly install the sight and nose cap.

 

[NEF308]

The 3 holes are through to the bore but very small & right at the last 1" of the barrel. 1 from the top for the sight, & 2 from the bottom for the nose end piece, all seem to be deburred & not catching on anything.